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Where are our men?

Sam Wilson asks SA men to take a hard look at themselves.

The 16 Days of Activism for No Violence against Women and Children campaign kicks off today and lasts until the 10 December.

This year, as every year, Women24 brings you I Stories from Gender Links, where real survivors tell stories we’d rather not listen to.

This year, like every year... I am asking you to read them, and hold these women – and the survivors in your own life – in your heart, and really think about what it must mean to live through such appalling abuse.

However, this year, I am not just talking to the women of Women24, but I am specifically addressing South African men and asking this question:

What are YOU doing about gender activism?

Each time we run the Female Nation Survey, I am appalled by the absence of men in South African families. Be they simply not there, or to absorbed in work to parent, or too distracted by sport to care... the majority of working South African women are both the primary breadwinners and primary caregivers in their families.

And those men who did hang around, how do they pitch in? The stats tell me... by beating up their wives and children, more than any other nation of men anywhere in the world.

I am not painting all men with a tar brush. What I am asking is: why are the nice men among us (and there are many hundreds of thousands of GREAT men), not ostracising this great swathe of deserters and abusers? 

Why aren’t men that don’t pay maintenance ridiculed by their peers? How is it that men who beat up their wives have any friends at all? How can rape be a frat house joke? Why are nice men not especially careful to treat women with respect, and to judge other men by that benchmark?

As someone who has worked in gender activism, and counselled rape survivors and taken young children to court to confront their abusers, and looked into the eyes of far too many terrified, pain-ridden women... I want to take this opportunity to say to South African men:

Shame on you.

This is too horrifying a situation to be expressed only in women’s voices. It’s time to pitch in, and help clean up this mess.

So I am asking you, men of South Africa – what are you personally going to do during this 16 Days of Activism?

Sam Wilson is the Editor-in-Chief of Women24, Food24 and Parent24. You can follow her on Twitter @SamWilson1 but only if you want to find out far too much about her personal life.


 

Read more on: gender equality  |  abuse
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Tsotsi 11/25/2009 12:28:57 PM
What sixteen days of activism...?!
Lucas 11/25/2009 12:30:10 PM
I am going to pray that she stops beating me.
Hi IQ 11/25/2009 12:30:22 PM
Sam,do you maybe have statistics of white on white.black on black,white on black and black on white rape ?
NotAStatistic 11/25/2009 12:31:34 PM
Don't paint all men with the same brush, get over yourself please my family is happy, healthy and wholeseome.
francois 11/25/2009 12:37:42 PM
and what are women gonna do in the
16 days . hopefully leave the men
who abuse them !
Paolo 11/25/2009 12:39:39 PM
I'm going to ignore women who whine. If a man beats you up then post him. Most men will not be bragging to their friends that they aren't paying child support or are beating their wives.

As for the primary caregiver, primary breadwinner issue. I hate to be the one to point it out, but if you want to fuck then try and be sure about the guy before you face these consequences.

I'm sick and tired of gender equality days, there will never be equality in the way women want it. Men and women are different, that is just the way it is.
me 11/25/2009 12:46:55 PM
Dont tell me shame on me. What did you do about the women who seduce other husbands, and who neglect their kids, spend compulsively and unrealistically, and so on? There are many good, healthy, and exemplary family men out there. Dont you dare categorise all South African men and vent on us. SHAME ON YOU.
Brandon 11/25/2009 12:48:32 PM
I can't speak for the rest but between working my ass off and drinking until my demands are met, I really don't have time for nonsense. Ladies want to be equal they must act the part, live their lives and take responsibility for themselves.
Warrick Burger 11/25/2009 12:48:46 PM
Nice guys! The article was not a personal attack on you - it was an entreaty to assist. Judging by the comments above it would seem that men condone violence against women!
Whatever 11/25/2009 12:48:50 PM
If i is more than any other nation of men anywhere in the world Then maybe there is something wrong with the women in the first place?
Martin 11/25/2009 12:49:46 PM
Most real men will be watching the Springboks...
I thought 11/25/2009 12:49:48 PM
i thought this '16days.." thing was another ANC thing. Isn,t it?
Thomas 11/25/2009 12:49:52 PM
I'm going to keep on doing what I do the other 349 days of the year - treat everyone the way I want to be treated. The mere fact that we need to "set aside" a special time to concentrate on this issue (and the myriad of other worthy causes) is a sad indictment of where we are as a society. Merely conetrating on this for a short period of time only serves to pay lip service to this issue.
Adams 11/25/2009 12:50:32 PM
I beg your pardon! I do not know a man that beats the woman in his life, if I did, I would not accept it. I do not know a man that does not pay maintenance, that too is unacceptable. Rape is never a joke. What do you expect from decent men? Must we shout it from the roof tops that these are unacceptable. Rather indicate exactly what you think I can do before putting your shame on me! What are you doing, besides a lousy column brought on by a 16 day campaign? Shame on you Sam Wilson , shame on you.
@ Paolo 11/25/2009 12:51:21 PM
I agree with you 100%... I'm a female and I care enough about myself to firstly not sleep around, to be careful of my surroundings so not be raped and god help the man that ever lifts his hands to me. Maybe it's about time the women in SA start to pull up their socks instead of playing the victims. Shame on the women in SA, blaming all of their problems on men.
Stirrer 11/25/2009 12:51:23 PM
HEY SAM !!!!You found all the men !!!! And yes good question HiIQ there is the real issue. Oh but sorry that would be racist, Non??.The facts WOULD I'm sure speak the truth.
Billy 11/25/2009 12:52:45 PM
I agree that any man touching a woman in any appropriate manner is a coward and needs a serious hiding but then again also, why do women stay with a man that has been beating her for years on end? You can offer to help anyone but if they keep going back to these guys then whats the use?
I personally hate guys that hit women, but they stay with these men for years. And if you dont hear about these women abusers then after 8-12 years of marriage you only find out that she was abused?
I agree men can do alot more but seriously, women can also make up their minds on what they want.
LETONA 11/25/2009 12:53:13 PM
Marry and love somebody that you cannot live without.Surely this SOMEBODY will never be turned to be a punching bag.Men and women must read corinthian 13 now and then,it will teaches you what LOVE is.
Goutie 11/25/2009 12:55:23 PM
Sam get a life!! We all know who the culprits are!!
Mark 11/25/2009 12:56:51 PM
In one breath you say that you don't want to generalise, but then that's exactly what you do. The truth is that in life you have to look after yourself. There are always victims of injustice, and that should be dealt with, but those steps should be taken by the women who are wronged. If he beats you, sort it out. If he doesn't pay, take him to court. As for us real men, we are bringing home the bacon, helping to raise our children, managing the demands of our wives for a newer, bigger house whilst at the same time being in charge of our finances (without spending too much time at the office trying to pay for this new house), dealing with women at work who don't really want equality but rather what suits them, so quite frankly, those who take those responsibilities seriously are doing exactly that. Taking care of business...

Sasha 11/25/2009 12:57:07 PM
I think the comments above just prove Sam's point.
The Other Voice 11/25/2009 12:58:34 PM
Tell my wife to stop insulting me, to stop the husband bashing at her so called "book club", to stop splurging on my credit card, to stop flirting with other men, to set a good example to my children. Then maybe I will join your 16 days crusade.
Shark 11/25/2009 12:58:45 PM
What yes there is bad men out there that hit there wife and rape woman and for them there is now excuse and if it was up to me I will send them to jail for a very long time but in the same breath like u say there is lot of good guys hoe have great relationships with there wife’s and children but how the hell can thy do anything about people abusing there wife’s it’s the woman hoe are to stupid to leave the men ( assholes) and woman hoe are the bread winners owe please the majority breadwinners for couples are men that an fact.
Bullet 11/25/2009 12:59:00 PM
I am a married man with four grown kids. I love my wife because she treats me with respect and I her.
I treat women of this modern liberated world the way they deserve to be treated and not the way they demand to be treated. The women of today are selfish, self centred and have a serious attitude problem. Their foul months and their behaviour is not becoming of a lady.
The women of today demand too much and because of government interference and are over protected and boy do they take advantage of the situation.
To give you an idea, being from the old school where it is good gentlemanly behaviour to open a door for a lady, one of them just the other day quipped "I not handicapped you know"
Well guys how do you respond to that.
Remember you reap what you sow and you chose that man above all other to be your husband and father your children. If you don’t like it then leave him and stop complaining.
As for rape, the bastards should be shot or hanged in public.
@samwilson 11/25/2009 1:00:13 PM
I see you are the editor-in-chief of Women24 as well. you say things like this in this article and then on Women24 you put up an article 'Expose yourself' which is about women who is positive about posing naked. How do you bring that together.
fullmoon 11/25/2009 1:00:27 PM
Maybe you should look to the mothers of those men who abuse...we learn at home,as children, from our primary caregivers how to treat others. And you have clearly stated that woman are the primary caregivers. Who was your caregiver, Sam?
SkerP 11/25/2009 1:03:25 PM
We're beyond the need for activism and awareness. As John Robbie pointed out, we need targets. Action. How about this news agency, through its links with Crime Stop, national and provincial police, and the ICD, makes it a target to arrest and convict those scumbag policemen who raped a young woman while her husband was unlawfully detained, and then raped her again when he went back to take action? F^%&^& this writing of quasi-feminist BS articles, and f%&^%* this 'taking aim at men this time around'... it's just as stultifying as doing nothing.
mack 11/25/2009 1:04:03 PM
what is sad is that not only do we have a special campaign for this ,but that we need one at all ,and pray tell me why only 16 days ?
Is it ok to murder ,rape and abuse all the other days ? Yes guys there are true bitches out there ,just ignore them and move on ,hitting is never ever the solution.
Hey You 11/25/2009 1:04:15 PM
@Sam Wilson: Wow, Thank you for stereotyping all the SA men. you Will have a great live and make some poor man very very very unhappy!
2020 11/25/2009 1:07:34 PM
So what sort of activism would you like to see SA men taking part in during this time?
The law already is strongly stacked in favour of women, for example, any woman can go and get a restraining order against her husband without having to provide any proof at all that her accusations have merit.
This whole campaign seems to be an assault on all men because it has the tone of “Well, even if you are not a violent husband then you are just as bad as one because you are not walking around waving a placard to support our cause.”
Chris Roper 11/25/2009 1:07:58 PM
Well. This is a proud day for South African men. Sigh.
tanya 11/25/2009 1:08:01 PM
dear stupid people

here's the point of the article.

"I am not painting all men with a tar brush. What I am asking is: why are the nice men among us (and there are many hundreds of thousands of GREAT men), not ostracising this great swathe of deserters and abusers?"

you (man person) are not being personally called out for being an abusive human. you're simply being asked what you're doing about it. this is not just something for women to address.

and for those that think it's simply a case of women playing victims - you obviously know far too little about the matter to comment it
Miss Bird 11/25/2009 1:09:48 PM
In response to those comments: I know of way too many pathetic men who can't be bothered to pay more than R500 a month maintenance, if anything at all, and who are satisified only seeing their kids once every 2 weekends. How can they think this is acceptable and that they are 'decent upstanding men contributing to society'?! This campaign, like all awareness campaigns is meant to...yes, raise AWARENESS of the fact that SA has a huge social problem. Too many people close their eyes and find someone else to blame, rather than their own lack of character. Yes, women should not stay with an abusive partner - as one who managed to eventually walk away, I at least know what it's like to get stuck with one and how it can break you down. No-one deserves to be treated like shit because of someone elses' insecurities.
@Bullet 11/25/2009 1:16:34 PM
Off the topic here, but Bullet: I'm not handicapped either but I AM a lady - allow me to thank you for opening that door. I hope such incidents don't put it off acting like the gentleman you are in future.
Yster 11/25/2009 1:17:36 PM
When those 16 days are up , then I'm really going to moer my wife !
Gerhard 11/25/2009 1:17:50 PM
Samantha, you are exactly the kind of women that would say things like this. Most men dont go around asking other men if the beat up their wifes, and if so please dont do it anymore. If the neighbour beats up his wife we call the cops Sam. That is what you do. You cannot run another persons life for him/her Sam. That is called Human Rights, democracy, equel rights, etc,etc, I am sure you get the picture. For most of us guys we have just enough energy to finally clean out the garage sometime this year. We have neither the inclination nor the energy, nor the desperate need to join stupid campaigns that changes nothing, and leads nowhere. Campaigns dont change people perceptions Sam, that happens inside, and has as many contributing factors as you have hairs on your head. Solving this one will take much more than your dubious and deliciously politically correct campaign.
camelthief 11/25/2009 1:19:12 PM
There is something seriously wrong in this society when you look at the statistics of what men do to women and children. These are statistics, not perceptions. However I just don't know what I can do - give us some practical helpful ideas. The flaw in your piece is thinking the 'nice' men are friends with savages. I choose my friends carefully and, as others have said, I don't know anyone who is violent or even sexist. I'm not interested in being anywhere near such people and if I find out they are then I cut them out of my life. Because of my choice of company, my experience of men and women is very different from the stats. What I do find is those of us men who don't fit the stereotype that women find it so easy to portray, don't get any acknowledgement or recognition. The 2 most powerful messages these bullys can get are from men in power/govt etc and from the women who hook up with them. Zuma needs to send a message by his own example and by dealing with known wifebeaters in government. Women need to send a message that such men are not interesting, attractive and lekker to be with. I'm sick of woman friends crying on my shoulder because of the *****they choose to hang around with.
Liz 11/25/2009 1:19:18 PM
I just want to say thank you to SA men, I live in the UK, men here are pathetic, and treat women like objects. Luckily I am married to a wonderful SA man, so SA men, you are all wonderful.
camelthief 11/25/2009 1:23:22 PM
There is something seriously wrong in this society when you look at the statistics of what men do to women and children. These are statistics, not perceptions. However I just don't know what I can do - give us some practical helpful ideas. The flaw in your piece is thinking the 'nice' men are friends with savages. I choose my friends carefully and, as others have said, I don't know anyone who is violent or even sexist. I'm not interested in being anywhere near such people and if I find out they are then I cut them out of my life. Because of my choice of company, my experience of men and women is very different from the stats. What I do find is those of us men who don't fit the stereotype that women find it so easy to portray, don't get any acknowledgement or recognition.
The 2 most powerful messages these bullys can get are from men in power/govt etc and from the women who hook up with them. Zuma needs to send a message by his own example and by dealing with known wifebeaters in government. Women need to send a message that such men are not interesting, attractive and lekker to be with. I'm sick of woman friends crying on my shoulder because of the *****they choose to hang around with.
Munk 11/25/2009 1:26:27 PM
I despise men who abuse their families. The mere thought of it makes my blood boil. I have on numerous occasions gotten the police involved in domestic violence cases, with our next door neighbour. I even helped change the locks to the house and stand watch at night to make sure he didnt appear again! All in all, men are scared... scared to say anything and do anything about it. It's about time we take a look at ourselves and our peers around us. Those of us who abuse, should be labeled so. Like the name and shame of the U.S. child molestation laws!
jacki 11/25/2009 1:27:09 PM
wow, some of those comments are harsh!

i agree with the sentiment of your article, but i don't think it is 'shame on you' to south african men. i think it is 'shame on you' to anyone who sees exploitation of any kind, and does not speak out.

and just leaving a relationship where there is abuse, is NEVER as simple as it sounds.
Pieter 11/25/2009 1:27:16 PM
To Warrick Burger and 'tanya': I think you’re pontificating arses! The men in the blog are not too stupid to understand the thrust of the article. They object as I do, to the misleading header and one-sided manner the article was written and then trying to appease criticism by saying: ‘Now I am not trying to paint all men with a tar brush you know . . .’ Really now?
Lou 11/25/2009 1:28:27 PM
You've generalised rather grossly in your article. We were all up in arms about Julius Malema generalising about Whites because they were not there to welcome home the athletes. Generalisations will never to any cause any good. It will be way more usefull to publish a list of email addresses of public officials to whom we can send petitions to, for instance, reinstate the specialised police unit dealing with family violence, or information about the status of women and how this affects the spread of HIV/AIDS, etc. Information is a good start, but the abilty to apply knowledge is true empowerment. What will I do: I will continue to treat all people equitably and with respect and, through my every day habits, instill the type of society where violence is never a solution for anything. There is no such thing as 16 days of activism. Society becomes what it is through what we do every day and that is where we change it.
Free Spirit 11/25/2009 1:30:34 PM
South African men! Have you ever looked into the eyes of an abused woman? (verbaly and emontionaly) Have you ever noticed the pain, the deadness of the soul? This kind of abuse is called The Silent Hurt, because it ususaly happens between the four walls of your home. I Endured that more than 30 years of marraige, left before it was nearly too late. Today i can smile again, i am a spirit set free!. And the children, don't they suffer too? I know.... mine did and still does.
Matthew 11/25/2009 1:31:06 PM
A proud day indeed, Chris. Man oh man do most of these men need therapy. Insecurity R us, eh boys?
AJ 11/25/2009 1:31:59 PM
BLah blah blah! If these women where interested in us 'nice guys' they would not have CHOSEN to be with a f!@#$nut that beats them up! It's called taking responsibility for your self. You don't hear about men screaming at women to please protect them from there scitzo wives and girlfriends do you?
Amityville 11/25/2009 1:35:40 PM
Motivating the men of SA does not seem to be the point of the article, but more to ridicule us, thereby alienating us. Alienation will not do anything to serve your cause. I suppose, you succeed in failing on this one. You may rally the support of women for your article, but again, the supposed target audience is lost.
Blokkies 11/25/2009 1:39:31 PM
This world has no place for a decent gentleman anymore. Women now complain because men have realized it, causing a culture of looking only after oneself. For some or other reason, this surprizes ladies out there.

What will I be doing during the sixteen days? I'll be myself and treat women with respect, trying to be a gentleman. And continue not expecting women to notice or care as per the usual. And nothing will change, as could be expected.

If you want to see change, ladies, start showing more respect to men who don't abuse you or treat you as objects.
disgussed 11/25/2009 1:41:49 PM
Sam, please, before you start generalising and being a feminist, make sure you have all the facts! (Im talking about "...the majority of working South African women are both the primary breadwinners... bla bla")
But yes, I do feel that more should be done to prevent woman AND children from being abused!
Lili Radloff 11/25/2009 1:44:57 PM
@Amityville, Pieter, Lou, AJ, and a horde of others. I wonder why you think it is even necessary to "rally" men? Why aren't you doing it yourselves? Why, if you are not guilty of standing around and doing nothing, are you feeling ridiculed? Surely whether or not to stand up, with women, against men who physically and sexually abuse women and children is not a difficult moral dilemma?
fedup 11/25/2009 1:45:04 PM
Yes, I agree, these are serious issues.
That said, I am an educated man with a professional career, and I consider myself a gentleman. Yet I am UNABLE to obtain even a date, as I suspect women view my manners and "niceness" as weakness. Instead, they choose men who are players and aholes, men who have the bling, men who are "real men".
So please, if you as a woman choose badly, it's your fault. Stop blaming men for your bad choices, and start taking some resonsibility.
Observer 11/25/2009 1:46:13 PM
Sam, you should know men's brains are generally wired to solve problems, and women's - generally - to talk about problems. That is why it is a man's world. Stop whining and start solving... And before you make such sweeping statements again, have some statistics ready to back up your accusations. That's now if you'd prefer to be taken seriously...
Smiegel 11/25/2009 1:48:51 PM
to: tanya (+woman persons)
from: stupid people
What are you (woman persons) going to do about the this fact: Woman statistically tend to abuse men more often than the other way around and its generaly more accepted. Shame on you long haired, painted toe nailed creatures.
Answers 11/25/2009 1:51:22 PM
Sam, your questions: Why aren’t men that don’t pay maintenance ridiculed by their peers? How is it that men who beat up their wives have any friends at all? How can rape be a frat house joke? Why are nice men not especially careful to treat women with respect, and to judge other men by that benchmark?

As a man, I can quite honestly say that perpetrators of rape, abuse, direliction of maintenance duty etc. are not publically aired or shared in conversation, and hence one does not have a real opportunity to express disgust in the behaviour directly. I'm not really sure what exactly I am supposed to do here ...
BladeRunner 11/25/2009 1:52:43 PM
Lets call a spade a spade Sam - I suggest you take your campaign to the townships where you will find the real culprits 90% of the time.
lixard 11/25/2009 1:57:01 PM
After that piece of hate speech - nothing!
What EXACTLY has previous umpteen days of protest achieved anyway? (Apart from serious and likely insincere hand-wringing.)
junsau 11/25/2009 1:57:15 PM
absense of Christ to be blamed. Have a good day.
dumpie 11/25/2009 2:00:21 PM
Im not a Family man yet but one day when i do get married and start a family, you can be assured that they will be well looked after and i will do my up-most to make sure that they are happy...is that ok..
Francois Roux 11/25/2009 2:01:24 PM
I wonder, if I call Sam a feminist, will my comment be posted? And that little, "I am not painting all men with a tar brush.", didn't save your article from sounding feminist either...
ZION 11/25/2009 2:01:38 PM
Last time I opened a door for a strange lady she jerked it from me yelling "Ek kan dit self doen" In front of a host of spectators. So lady(ies) doen dit dan self.
VG 11/25/2009 2:02:26 PM
Holy sh*t! I used to wonder why SA had such horrifying stats on women and child abuse...the comments above say it all!

Interestingly, a while back an NGO published an eplosive report on rape - they found that 1 in 4 men are essentially rapists (or something to that effect). The researchers were interviewed on radio and what struck me is that EVERY ONE of the men who called in started off by questioning the validity of the claims. Not one was interested in how to talk to their sons/daughters/male friends about these issues - they were just all looking for the teensiest reason to shirk responsibility for what is essentially a societal issue.

What none of these men seem to realise is that SA's statistics on abuse are as much an indictment of SA's women as it is of men. If 1 in 4 men have raped then every woman in SA statistically knows one - and so as sisters, wives, cousins, aunts....we're failing our other sisters
peter 11/25/2009 2:03:53 PM
sometimes a woman needs a good klap. (burning face, not vagina)
3shot 11/25/2009 2:07:28 PM
@fedup. Nail on head! Women are human and they have choices to make. Well, they LOVE choosing the "abusers" because polite proffessionals like us are "not man enough". The women of today call themselves "independent" when it suits them, then turn around and say "but I'm a woman/lady" when they want to abuse a man. There is absolutely nothing that FORCES a woman to stay with a man she finds abuses nowadays. But they love to keep up appearances and lifestyles so they stay. Is that the man's problem? If he's abusive and you stay, YOU are in the wrong too. Why should he stop?
Verbal Abuse 11/25/2009 2:08:22 PM
Do i understand it right? You want to motivate me who is absolutely against any form of women abuse to go on a crusade for women by verbally abusing me(i am a south african man)Now either you know nothing about the way men think and are motivated or you are so damaged by men who abuse you that you trying to use simular tacticts than abusers do. I hope its the former then there might be a solution for you.
Lili 11/25/2009 2:11:57 PM
@Francious Roux OOOOH! A feminist! Sam, he called you a feminist! How will you ever sleep again? Honestly, you guys crack me up.
Whytemann 11/25/2009 2:12:14 PM
Sam, i agree that no women, NO WOMAN, should be abused by any man. But, the women of this country should also take a long, hard look at themselves and then ask themselves why it is when they entice a man and lead him on with sexy, irresistable seductiveness, and suddenly just say no when the man is past the point of no return (know what I mean?)that the man then becomes agressive? Or why is it that, when they are angry with a man, they withold sex from him and bad-mouth him, and then still have the audacity to expect men to open the door for them? Women want it all their way - they want to be dominering and have the last say and make all the decisions - to me this is a definate and big TURN-OFF, as I'm sure it is to most other full blooded men!Thank God my wife's not like that, but I see many clients who are devastated by this problem. If woman want to be treated as equalls, and I assume that means equall to men, then open your own bloody doors! And don't think that witholding sex will get you what you want, honey, there are plenty of other women out there to help us!
Sandman 11/25/2009 2:12:24 PM
The problem is that women WANT to rule the roost. Yea,Women and children rule over us.
I do not condone violence but unfortunately living in Sodom/Babylon is not condusive to marriage or raising children. Sam why do you not speak of the root cause. I am not interested in the symptoms of society. The futher you go from GOD the worse it will become.
Zee 11/25/2009 2:12:28 PM
Why do feminists, who strive for equality etc between the genders, then moan and moan that the men need to fix everything? I do not know a single man that beats his wife/girlfriend and if i did I would klap him and then put the cops on him. You are generalising to the extreme! Women have an equal role to play in all of this - too many women out there long for the "bad boy" and find the "nice guy" just not attractive. They then get abused and still want to remain with the man! You make your own choices in life, make wise choices and we wouldn't have these issues. Most men I know are equally as disgusted about abuse of women and children. But to expect the men to fix the entire problem is a bit far-fetched. I also completely disagree with you about the majority of women being the primary breadwinners - where oh where are you getting your information from? It comes down to each and every woman taking responsibility for their own lives and ditching the guy that abuses them - there are enough nice guys out there who are often very willing and able to treat the lady as she deserves to be treated, like a princess, but those guys are also usually the ones being shunned for the "bad boy".
Where are all the Ladies out there??? 11/25/2009 2:12:37 PM
Reading this like pealing my eyeballs!! If a man is an assh#@Le, leave him. If your woman is an assH%$#le, leave her....

Woman want everything given on a platter, life is tough, deal with it. Its not nice, but it is what it is. I've seen woman beating a man up, actually it was me, you don't see me walking with a banner saying I'm abused!! There are cases where woman want to fight like a man, then they should take it like a man.
Where are all the LADIES out there??? Open the door, don't open the door, its all too confusing for us simple Joes!
I guess we are not there because we're out getting on with it; trying to provide for our families.
@bladerunner 11/25/2009 2:14:25 PM
I suspect that the reality of statistics will depict white males as having a (statistically) far greater propensity for comitting violence against women than our black counterparts. You are an idiot (calling a "spade" a "blade" more like it). Chop.
Christian 11/25/2009 2:14:55 PM
Real MEn do not need to do anything during these next 16 days, because real men do not beat up women. We respect our ladies of all ages and expect them to repect us. The soloutions are simple Sam:

- Punish all rapist including the death sentance for boilent and repeat rapists.

- Moral value systems, true Christian morals.

I will continue treating all people with respect because that is how I was brought up. God Bless you all and protect our Wowen from abuse.
Pieter 11/25/2009 2:18:05 PM
Aaargghhh Lili! For someone who so frequently boasts about her a-religiousness you sound just like a whining hypocritical preacher yerself! Ooh look at me, I’ve got a column I’m so liberal and atheistic and I can wag my holier than though finger at all of you because I know better. Get a life! I believe that all of the men and women writing in this blog are against violence towards women and children what is that you are not getting, is it not obvious? What is obvious is that they feel so much disgust towards something like this, that at the smallest hint of any accusation that they might be guilty in part has got them all up in arms! To me that’s positive because they are responding, if there was no response to this column we should have been worried.
Where are all the Ladies out there??? 11/25/2009 2:18:14 PM
Zee, you hit the nail on the head!!!
Anne S 11/25/2009 2:20:52 PM
WHY ONLY 16 DAYS??? It should be ALL YEAR ROUND. @ PETER you can be GLAD that you were not married to me. I would have beaten you back and then LAY a charge against you at the closest police station. Your comment about genitals is RUDE. Violence should not be done towards husbands OR wives.
Ghwappie 11/25/2009 2:21:15 PM
I'll tell you where the real men are. Right around you. Millions of us. We are the bespectacled, nerdish types most women consider too boring or too plain to take a second look at. We are not wife beaters, we are the good husbands. So for those women who consider "hunks" and "exciting bad boys" the best life partners, you deserve exactly what you got. And Sam, if those are the circles you move in, I feel sorry for you, girl. None of my friends have ever lifted their hands to their wives. Of the few divorces, it was, in every case, the wife who screwed around. 'Nuff said.
Real Man 11/25/2009 2:22:55 PM
A juvenile bit of writing.
All men are woman-beaters, just like all women are manipulative tramps that sleep with old men for their money.

16 Days of bla bla bla.

If women are the main bread winners then what's all this glass ceiling malarky. I'm looking around my large office right now and the men outnumber the women.

What do you propose we do? Stop watching rugby to talk about how wrong we think abuse is then all nod collectively.

Put some solid stats on to back up your drivel.

For every man that beats, there's a woman that cheats. I have no proof to back up that statement - so we have something in common.

Before you start clucking away about my insensitive view, maybe take a look at the way you approach the real men in this country.

@ Mark 11/25/2009 2:23:55 PM
"If he beats you, sort it out. If he doesn't pay, take him to court."

Yep, it's that simple mate. Beaten women are just doff and lazy. Righty-ho.
Sandman 11/25/2009 2:24:52 PM
Also woman should act like woman who want their husbands to adore them but unfortunately 90% want to corrupt,control and connive with they way they act,dress etc.
GrootSeun 11/25/2009 2:27:09 PM
I am doing my bit. This year I am giving my wife a break for the 16 days - I have sent her on holiday for the period.
Capital Q 11/25/2009 2:27:15 PM
O FFS Sam!! Do you really think that men do not care about women being abused or raped? Think again!

I am a man. I oppose rape and violence towards women. I don't do it. How must I stop other men from doing it?

This type of reasoning is so beyond me. It's the same as wanting all men to curb armed robbery - as most armed robbers are men. What are you women thinking?

Every time it's anti-rape day or whatever - we get inane comments like yours. READ THE STORIES!!! READ THEM!! What is reading stories going to help anybody? I ALREADY don't rape and beat - get it???

JoeSoap 11/25/2009 2:27:20 PM
@Chop, have a go at bladerunner - no, I doubt you will find that the stats say that. We have a culture here of torturing bulls to death, human-bodyparts muti, etc etc, and you say white guys beat up chicks more than the black dudes? Nope, wrong. They dont even classify it as violence and it hardly ever gets reported, its just the way of life.
Julia 11/25/2009 2:29:51 PM
I had tears in my eyes when I read this article. It is really well-written and I thank you for that. Then I read these comments and I started to cry.
We have such a long way to go and that is really sad.
Zane 11/25/2009 2:30:30 PM
Typical.... lets insult you and in the same breath ask for your support??? and secondly, I am too busy with the children (its exam time) I cook on alternative evenings and busy with the kids sport!!! and still the bread winner so tell me when must I have time to support this activism of yours, and lastly, all my friends dont treat women badly, the ones that did arent my friend anymore.... but youll never read about those stats cause I dont advrtise them, Im too busy being a father and husband
Florrian 11/25/2009 2:31:27 PM
Yawn, what a boring, predictable letter. What I am I gonna do during the 16 days? I'll make sure my partner doesn't step outta line, that's what!
Jaded 11/25/2009 2:39:00 PM
Honestly, you men who are making all these ridiculous comments need to think about this - what would you do if it was your DAUGHTER being attacked, beaten, berated - abused.

You need to understand the context of this article and absorb it accordingly. Instead of jumping to your own defence, how bout defending the hundreds and thousands of abused women and children!
Ed 11/25/2009 2:45:54 PM
I cannot believe some of the comments made here! A real man does not hit a woman or child, full stop.
Eita 11/25/2009 2:47:04 PM
Stop bashing men, please. Mbeki again and again. He promoted this through and through. It's disgusting, to be labelled like this. We are just one people, judt different genders. Girl child to school sucks!! what about oyung boys. What type of society has women over men, even America and UK "liberals, don't"
Peter 11/25/2009 2:47:40 PM
We all know who the offenders and culprits are of most of these crimes against women, don't we! If all the good men stood up to these evil men, we would be called, yes you guessed it, RACISTS. You all know that I am right.
Simon 11/25/2009 2:48:02 PM
Hi Sam, I mentioned you on my blog. You can see it here: http://blogs.news24.com/one-eye-only/an-interesting-16-days-of-activism
blah 11/25/2009 2:50:28 PM
With the way women obsess about relationships I would have expected them to be able to fix those sort of problems better than men.
saddened 11/25/2009 2:51:26 PM
It's sad to see these responses. All these men can do is either claim that they're great so its not their problem or lay the blame on the woman who are abused, questioning why they stay, as though leaving is an option for those woman. As a victim of abuse myself, I know what it feels like to be trapped in the cycle of abuse. There was a lot of times I wished some men who knew exactly what was going on had stood up, and helped me. I eventually found my way out, I eventually picked up the pieces of my shattered self esteem, unfortunately not all woman are strong enough to do so. Don't judge them for that, you can't understand it, and why they stay. Stop whining about equality for woman, this not about that its about basic respect for woman, why not assist in this cause why be stubborn? For those men who are such "upstanding gentlemen" prove it, wear the white ribbon in support of this cause, show that you are against abuse. For those of you who are interested in knowing what its like in the mind of the abused, follow my blog over the next few days: http://blogs.news24.com/bug_life
TG 11/25/2009 2:51:42 PM
NOTHING!! Not all men are the same. Start paying some respect to decent husbands and fathers-it's not always about Women.
TG 11/25/2009 2:51:44 PM
NOTHING!! Not all men are the same. Start paying some respect to decent husbands and fathers-it's not always about Women.
Rob 11/25/2009 2:52:21 PM
Sam you're an ignorant idiot. Guys do not talk openly over coffee or book club about how they beat their wife last night or don't pay maintenance. Or even better boast about which girl they raped. Are you that much of an idiot? Any normal guy would beat the living crap out of such a guy or at least report him to the SAP.
These days everything is women women women, how they run the world, are the beadwinners, how useless guys are.. bla bla bla...
Yawn.
I treat women with utmost respect and have great manners, but yes it gets thrown back in my face repeatedly. But its cool, those are the women who end up getting beaten. I know my wife will be happy at least. So to all you feminist 'we rule the world' women, you can fight your own battles. I'm tired of standing up for women then getting all Oprah on us.
And yes i believe abusers of women and rapist should be dragged into the street and shot. I would if i could.
Thomas 11/25/2009 2:55:30 PM
Wow. What an emotive, stereotypical set of responses. Sam, I understand that your article was perhaps written out a sense of frustration at the perceived little that "good" men are doing to stop this abuse of women and children. I really wish the answer was that simple, that good men doing something would signal the end of woman and child abuse. I commented earlier that I would continue doing what I do through the year - treat with respect - but I realise now that I need to do more than that. Please point me in the right direction here, I would like to help, but am not sure about the right direction to take.
Stii 11/25/2009 2:57:26 PM
The way some of you react makes one think if you're standing behind the door... Dudes, get help. You guys clearly have issues.
Francois Roux 11/25/2009 3:01:48 PM
@Lili, you crack me up even more when you can't spell my name correctly, even when it's there in plain view for you to copy of the screen...HAHAHA Anyway, of course all normal men think it's only idiots who smack their wifes. But similarly, a woman should expect to receive a smack back when she hit first, she decided to elevate/lower herself to the male way of sorting things out with violence in the first place, not? Also any person with half a brain can see that Sam wrote that article in a particular way to get the stupid reactions she is getting, now whether she did it to prove that she's right, or to just get people talking I don;t know, but for now I'll keep with my original thoughts that it's a feminist article. It's almost as bad as that stupid Charlize Theron add they had on our local excuse for a TV channel some years ago, insinuating that all men are rapists...
mark 11/25/2009 3:02:00 PM
oooooppppssss Am I missing something. After Dec 10; women continue to be bashed or banished ?????
DISGUSTED 11/25/2009 3:02:53 PM
I HAVE READ SOME SICK COMMENTS BY PEOPLE ON THIS WEBSITE BEFORE BUT THE COMMENTS TO THIS PIECE ARE ABSOLUTELY THE MOST DISGUSTING PIECE OF RUBBISH. I AM ASHAMED TO CALL MYSELF A SOUTH AFRICAN MALE. IT CLEARLY UNDERLINES THE POINT THE AUTHOR MAKES IN HER TITLE: "WHERE ARE ALL THE MEN"???????
Erik 11/25/2009 3:03:48 PM
Well let me try be a typical man a solve this problem. My thinking is men should go through a "coming of age" ceremony and be given the main tools for manhood and responsibility. I would also include methods on how to attract and keep women in this ceremony. But that these tools should only be used with due consideration and careful and responsible decision making. Some examples of skills include: comedic skills, self belief tools, re-framing techniques, correctness of attitude, detecting women with issues and ethics thereto, etc, etc). Then should a man forget his manlike skills (which can happen), he could be required to be re-certified. hehe

But in my opinion, when it comes to attraction, women are faulted in their decision making (they follow their feelings) around men they like and I think in order to protect mankind from itself, I do believe we should find more ways for men to protect our softer\fairer\sweeter\whatever subset.
genie 11/25/2009 3:16:37 PM
You make it sound as if finding a good, decent man is as scarce as finding a good looking feminist. Maybe you should change the circles you move in.
Smiegel 11/25/2009 3:20:39 PM
Is your website biast to comments published???? Does it only matter when its in favour of the woman??
melanie 11/25/2009 3:24:48 PM
Being born male does not make you a man and sadly most males do not aspire to become men
MACK -AGAIN 11/25/2009 3:25:31 PM
come on fella's we were not generalised against.Here is another stone in the dark seedy bush ,blame sunny SA from 1900 to 1994.We are an angry sick society,apartheid alas had some good in it (roads ,water,schools,policing ect)also had a very negative impact ,it made us extremely frustrated and violent.The unlady like manners of woman,are also not helping thier cause,although any form of abuse is just not on !
StandUpForTheWomanThatDeservesIt 11/25/2009 3:31:15 PM
Firstly, any man that lifts his hands to woman needs to have the crap beat of of him. The same goes for men who cannot take the responsibility of looking after the kids they brought into this world. Having said that, why must it take a woman 30 years of been beat to eventually leave, then have the guts to blast the rest of us for your timming or lack therof issues. For crying out loud, do we stand up and give you the chair, do we open the door for you, and run the risk of been ebarrased in public with your "I can do it myself outbursts"
I have never, and will never lift a hand to my wife, cause she has one thing in common with me, respect. And for that reason, she gets the car door opened, she gets the chair pulled out, she gets my back against the open door so she doesnt get cold. As for most other facist pigs, do it yourself.
SkerP 11/25/2009 3:33:22 PM
@ Melanie... I presume you've met 1.5-billion + 1 of males on the planet, in order to generate your 'most males' statistic? Quit the generalisations. You sound like an embittered woman. Lemme guess... you didn't put out, hubby went-a-courting elesewhere, and you dropped him like a hot spud? Not that I would blame you, but not all men fit the stereotype.
CTheB 11/25/2009 3:35:52 PM
Awareness campaigns in and of themselves seldom seem to achieve much of anything since they're usually constructed as generalised attacks against some group, the creators somehow then being surprised that the general group they've attacked get defensive.

You've done much the same thing. You've done the equivalent of saying something along the lines of, "I'm not racist, but ." You say you're not tarring all SA men with the same brush, but then do exactly that by claiming that all SA men either commit these terrible acts or condone them, making them pretty much just as bad. By attempting to absolve yourself of responsibility for the attack you're making you only manage to reduce your credibility. Which is a pity since it's not unreasonable at all to ask people to take a look at themselves and their lives and consider whether they really do all they can.

I'm curious to know what would be considered a better thing to be doing than treating women with respect and generally shunning those who don't. That's my approach because I believe that setting what I consider to be a good example is going to have far more effect than donating money to a charity that will squander most of it or walking down a street with a placard (which will be ignored or worse because it'll most likely be perceived as an attack). Actions speak louder than words, after all. In my group of friends those who've mistreated women have been unceremoniously ejected. The same goes for the women who've mistreated men.

I feel much the same way about the 16 days of activism as I do about valentine's day - why should I single out some particular period of time to behave the way I believe I should and show people I respect or care about them?
Mark 11/25/2009 3:36:39 PM
Well so if the purpose of the article is to get a response then i guess you have. I reacted quite defensively for the same reason that most men here did. We are doing a very difficult job, balancing (hopefully successfully) the jobs that we have, and the roles that we fulfill, that when we read an article that says "shame on you", and that was intended for us by the way, that we react quite badly. So don't be surprised if the responses here aren't to your liking. the article wasn't to our liking...
Jono 11/25/2009 3:39:51 PM
Where are the real men? Come with me and I'll show you.
Qwan 11/25/2009 3:48:53 PM
bahahahahahaha,

FFS Sam, Now i have to go and moer my wife again tonight, because se prop read the kak you're writing!

cause and consequence. there can be none without the other.
Dave the brave 11/25/2009 3:55:43 PM
"the majority of working South African women are both the primary breadwinners and primary caregivers in their families" - Yeah Right!
Suggest you re-look at your sampling techniques.
The Other Sam 11/25/2009 3:59:04 PM
Dear gentlemen who have reached this far down the page and are feeling so pissed off and empathetic. Please. Ask yourself a quick question, "Am I an abuser?" If no, ask the next question, "Am I doing anything to alleviate this out of control?" If the answer is yes, by way of opening doors, respecting your family, colleagues, neighbour etc, then good for you!

But then you have to ask yourself the hardest one, "Is what I'm doing enough?".

This is a societal issue that has to be addressed by *everyone*. you are not always going to be around to change your wife/gf's flat tyre on a lonely road. You are not going to be able to vett every man your daughter dates. Your respect, love and care for them will help them *nought* in these situations unless you do your part in changing the community that you live in.

Consider this - if I happened across your beloved laying freshly abused on the side of the road, would you like me to:
a) drive on
b) drive on but phone the police
c) STOP and HELP in ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

As us males are intrinsically competitive, the only way we can do this is by *forcibly* raising the bar for all the men around us. Be as much of an example outdoors as you are indoors.

True Story.
Brian 11/25/2009 3:59:22 PM
As a male I am disgusted by the comments to this article. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that these pathetic individuals are the wife and chils batterers that the article is about !!
Caleb 11/25/2009 4:02:14 PM
As a South African male I am appalled at some of the comments that I have read above mine. If those same men above had to have seen their own mother,sisters and daughter/sons beaten or abused then they would be writing differently. It is because of this mentality that our beautiful country is like it is. The lack of respect for one another is shocking let alone respect for people we claim we love. Some of the comments said leave us alone our families are ok is just not good enough. When good men do nothing, evil men prevail.

Come on men and stand up for your mothers, sisters and daughters.
TNC 11/25/2009 4:03:00 PM
What about women who abuse men? Literally, if a man goes to police station to report domestic violence by his wife he gets laughed at
DEAN 11/25/2009 4:04:39 PM
Who does this chic think she is, not all men are the same!! women fought so hard for thier equality and now they complain about working, and men not worrying about them-- we are supposed to be equals now! Or do you only want to be equal some of the time? stand up a be a real women! get of your pedestool and be our equals sweetheart. there are a lot better topics to talk about than this!
wendy 11/25/2009 4:10:16 PM
‘All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.’

im just saying
Tax paying Man 11/25/2009 4:11:13 PM
Re-look at the stats on tax paying men, i hate falling into the same category as the non-tax paying man
Sarel Seemonster 11/25/2009 4:11:15 PM
Statistically... 9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape.
Clive 11/25/2009 4:15:29 PM
Sheesh okes - get a grip. Sam's article deserves our applause, not rebuke. Read it again before you make idiotic and insulting comments - she's saying that as men we need to stand up for our families, be active members in them and play a role that adds to people's lives and if our buddies aren't showing people the respect they should then we shouldn't tolerate it.

C'mon guys...
ray 11/25/2009 4:18:31 PM
Not to dilute the seriousness of Abuse. Has anyone read "Yster" comments Above that, Quote "After 16 days he is really going to moer his wife". A brillant piece of Satire aimed at this subject, nothwithstanding the reality of this awful act. Concerning the Stats that SA men are the worst abusers, in the world, that is false. The rest of Africa women are just raped and murdered and abused with no Real Stats and Reporting, on a massive scale. And as for the Arab nations Women have no rights, talk about being abused, God forbid that they question a man let alone have the law on their side. Yes it is awful here but get your facts right SA men are not the worst in the world.
Fouche 11/25/2009 4:22:19 PM
Q: What does 200,000 battered SA women have in common? A: They don't bloody listen! Q: What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes? A: Nothing, you told her twice alreadY!
twit 11/25/2009 4:22:50 PM
Sam you are a twit...
eugene 11/25/2009 4:30:20 PM
I just cant quite get the words I want to express myself about this issue, but here goes. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. If a man beats you, stab him in his sleep, or if thats not your thing, why not just pack up and leave???
Also I know so many young women who recently got a degree in something like teaching or philosophy. Ask them what they are going to do with it, and the answer is the same. "Im going to marry a rich man" So if you struggle to get those maintenance payments thats probably why. Women should stand up for themselves. The mere fact that this is still an issue really pisses me off. So what am I going to do those 16 days?? I will be consumed in work and when I do get a bit of time for myself I will be spending it with friends, study, research, or just a beer at the local Dros. What should women do those 16 days, pretty much the same thing. YOU ALL HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS!!!! Use it.
Roger Woman 11/25/2009 4:33:27 PM
Whats wrong with watching sport all day?
Zee @ Wendy 11/25/2009 4:37:42 PM
Wendy that should read "All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men AND WOMAN to do nothing" :) Have a stunning day!
rbgguy 11/25/2009 4:42:15 PM
Why don't females help themselves? They have all the legal rights now don't they? Now you expect MALES to get involved in FEMALE activism? What a joke.
noonoo 11/25/2009 4:45:47 PM
And all of these things are definitely NOT AYOBA!
My wife is strong 11/25/2009 4:54:14 PM
Sam, I am going to get my wife to clip you on the side of the head...your article is poor, misinformed and is a dreadful way to drum up support for a capaign - is that abuse?
male 11/25/2009 4:54:50 PM
I have never seen violence against a woman yet if i had to, the culprit would not be in good shape once i'm done with him... i fail to see how marching will solve such a complex issue in our society. The fact of the matter is as a white South African i personally have not been exposed to gender violence, however i know it occurs, there is simply no reason to stand up and say "yes its terrible so something must be done" and then continue with life. For me it's more a case of out of sight out of mind and until it is something that i see then there really isn't anything i can do is there?
Sarel Seemonster 11/25/2009 5:01:46 PM
My missus has just gone into hospital with two black eyes and a broken jaw. It seems we were on different wavelengths when she said she wanted decking on the patio.
Unbelievable! 11/25/2009 5:11:21 PM
To all the males who have commented here with jokes & sexist remarks. If I ever catch you hitting a female, I will drop you. And I do mean drop you. God (yes, I WILL bring Him into this!) instructed us to love our wives as Jesus loves the church. And what did Jesus do when the church betrayed Him? Hit back with anger? No, he died for the church. Feel betrayed & bitter about the way women in your life treat you? Get BIGGER than that! It's not about the women. It's not about what they've done to deserve it. It's about us males, or, if we so choose, men. Oh, & I have proven this time & time again, when I act like a man, she acts like a lady. Try it, if you're MAN enough.
Yussie 11/25/2009 5:14:10 PM
interesting read...
what can i as a guy do to be more active during these 16 days?
Chain gun 11/25/2009 5:35:44 PM
I support anything that will protect all.
There must be one set of rules for every one.
BUT I will never ever support a cause that tries to protect just one group, it is instantly abused by that group.
And SA woman are notoriously dirty players.
2 of my friends have done B*ll SH*T prison time on false spousal abuse charges during divorce, it was used as leverage for personal gain.
When I look at my friends it is the woman making life a hell not the men.
Ladies we just dont believe you or trust you any more.......... sorry
Eve 11/25/2009 5:40:37 PM
You are in a position where what you say could really make a difference.
Instead of using that though, you choose to write a poorly researched article to drum up hits to your website. You debase the issue (a very serious one) by doing so.
Perhaps you could concentrate on actually doing something in the real world that would actually make a difference.
fuz 11/25/2009 5:42:03 PM
I'm with Sam on this and I'm really shocked at the defensive anti-women stance going on here.

There are some men in my own family, who beat their wives and emotionally abuse them. As a young girl, I was told to shut up and not pry in other people's business, that it was not my place to admonish my elders.

Not one of the men in my family have stood up for the women who are on the receiving end of this treatment. It's just something to be hushed up and silenced. And of course the wife-beaters are still greeted warmly at family-gatherings and fussed over at tea-time.

I'm sure many of the people who've commented here have similar stories in their families, it's probably just hushed up as well.
Mark 11/25/2009 5:51:05 PM
I cant take this article seriously, it was written by a woman. :)
@author 11/25/2009 5:53:21 PM
I'll be watching rugby. I'm single, and plan to be forever. Your problems is not my problems. You choose your husband, this is not 1400 where you are forced to marry the guy. If I murder somebody, who else can I blame than myself? It is the same with beggars, don't beg from me, you are not my problem, I did not put you there, I work my arse off for my money REMEMBER: circumstances don't create a person, it reveals character.
Shameful man? 11/25/2009 5:58:41 PM
Let me get this right, you verbally abuse me whilst writing an article against abuse?
Do you know me, or anything about me? My wife and I treat each other with a loving, mutual respect, and I was brought up to respect all human beings. No one I know is a wife beater.

So, please tell me, what exactly I should be doing to aid your cause. Should I patrol the neighbourhoods at night, listening out for domestic quarrels, break down doors...?
Mike 11/25/2009 6:01:37 PM
So we as white men cant get jobs, we have to leave our country, get treated like S..T at work, not get promoted etc etc etc and then we even get acused of this as well!!! lol I am out of here! Go blame the people who shoudl be blamed! And that is not MEN but a very certain kind of MAN!!!! You women give us respect and we will give it back!
Noc 11/25/2009 6:10:25 PM
I'm not religious, but I will pray if I have to that for ONCE people in media have the balls to call a spade what it is. Sam, always been a great fan of your work, but today there's the column, minus that ever-missing little ingredient to stop the generalisation on MEN. I AM appalled by the cowards who are the culprits, but for f*cks sake - add the relevant and much-needed demographics here too.

I refuse to be branded as a "South African Man", as we ALL know why the statistics are so shoddy, but nobody has the guts to glance in the right direction.
GavinC 11/25/2009 6:20:11 PM
It’s strange how you all missed the pretext of Sam’s commentary. It was Plato that said “The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men” or with a slightly different slant: “Of course we must fear evil men, but there is another evil that we must fear more… and that is the indifference of good men.” While some might escape this course, it’s patently obvious that none of them commented on this article. It IS a shame on all of us. It is the greatest encouragement for a rapist or an abusive man, or a child support reneger that we do nothing. Our lack of voice is consent. The funny part: the men that think they’re the good guys because they aren’t abusive. I think it’s clear from the unease about being labelled in the same group as the bad guys that at some level you KNOW you aren’t doing enough. You KNOW you’re guilty of this.... “But I haven’t done anything wrong” you all stammer. You haven’t done anything right either.It’s clear from the sheer range and ubiquity of inane comments around “just leave him if he’s abusive” and “women want and have more equality than men” to the more terrifying “women just play at being victim” that none of you knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers are even remotely able to understand the very basics of the social paradigm that you claim is now victimising you – what an irony. Would that we could all be so flippant about some of the darkest things humans are capable of. Women don’t want to be men; they want the biological and psychosocial differences between genders not to be used as a basis for discrimination. “Men and women aren’t equal” Really? Is that the best you can manage? How is it that you can even breathe unaided?“What do you want us to do?”, “How can you label us so?” “Women don’t like nice guys”. Are you all really this stupid or are you just being obtuse? Who do you think is going to take responsibility for these disgusting men that you all but sanction? Our mothers? Our sisters? Our daughters? Oh shit! Maybe you should stop playing dodge-ball and face the fact that your pathetically flimsy excuses and gross ignorance paint you as the bunch of inept cowards that you really are. Step up to the plate and use your voice, instead of grunting and brachiating. Yes: Your voice isn’t going to be enough, but 16 days of that is a country mile more than your current armchair bravado.
peter 11/25/2009 6:55:09 PM
There are always two sides to a coin. I've seen enough females that turn their husbands lives into a hell. Females seem to suffer a permanent inferiority complex. It seems to be perfectly OK for a female to hit a male, but oh boy...if he hits back!! Thats when you get articles like Sams. I say dont hit the bitch..K&ll her!
arno 11/25/2009 7:05:57 PM
16 days.. gee whiz that's going to make a difference, like people only going to church on Sundays. Its just gender xenophobia/racism oops, did I say that.. Someone once said 'esteem others more than yourself' but since we're all monkeys, that has no relevance I guess.
Can’t wait for the 17th!
Papeslaai 11/25/2009 7:24:17 PM
What do you expect? Womans day, no man's day. Bring your daughter work, stuff the boys. Woman this, woman that.
Roy 11/25/2009 7:55:14 PM
You say you don't wish to painting all men with the same brush, yet that's exactly what you've done. SHAME ON YOU for your bigotry article. I'm sure I speak for all decent men when I say that we do not abuse women, nor do we befriend those who do ...
Shameful man? 11/25/2009 8:19:04 PM
@GavinC
"Our lack of voice is consent. The funny part: the men that think they’re the good guys because they aren’t abusive. I think it’s clear from the unease about being labelled in the same group as the bad guys that at some level you KNOW you aren’t doing enough. You KNOW you’re guilty of this.... “But I haven’t done anything wrong” you all stammer. You haven’t done anything right either."

You know me personally as well then? Do you think you could get off your high horse for long enough to tell me exactly what I should be doing?
GIDEON 11/25/2009 8:20:54 PM
Kak op die man/s se kop, veral as hy wit is. Baie maklik.
Realman 11/25/2009 8:32:32 PM
Men are marginalized at every turn in South Africa, it is politically incorrect to be a man at the moment. So grow a pair of gonads and be the man !
Equal treatment for men 11/25/2009 8:37:27 PM
I will pitch in for the 16 days of activism just as soon as a substantial number of women pitch in for fair and equitable treatment of fathers in divorce cases involving custody of children.Women get preferential treatment in child custody cases almost 100% of the time, regardless of indisputable evidence that the father would be the better custodian. Too many fathers have to abide by the courts decision to strip them of their paternal rights. We have to then subject ourselves to the tyrannical authority of our bitter and twisted ex-wives, who more frequently than not use the children as weapons of vengeance.When women in general come out and actively support the equal treatment of men in custody cases, THEN and only then will I offer active support for this 16 days thing.For the record; I have never caused any woman any harm, whether mental of physical. I have paid my child support, and a lot more, religiously not only for my own children, but also a sibling from another man.I love my children dearly and would never do anything that would negatively impact them in any way. All I ask is to be treated on an equal footing to my ex-wife.When you can support that, and write a column about the injustices that fathers have to suffer in custody cases, I will consider your viewpoint as somewhat balanced.
CTheB 11/25/2009 8:54:03 PM
@GavinC - I can see that you didn't read all the comments and are, like Sam, labelling all men as being effectively the same.Yes, many of the comments are inane and demonstrate deliberate retaliation under attack (admittedly poorly considered) or plain ignorance. Or both. However, to claim that this is clearly an indication of unease and guilt makes no more sense than George W. claiming that anyone who didn't support whatever stupid laws the US government dreamt up to "fight terrorism" were supporting terrorists. Being defensive is a normal reaction to attack. Is it a useful reaction? No, not always. In this case it's pointless. But that's not the same as those who're doing it tacitly admitting guilt. It is, of course, possible that they are guilty of generally downplaying these sorts of issues and thereby effectively condoning them, but just because something's possible doesnt make it a fact.Both you and Sam have good points to make and it's just unfortunate that you've chosen to put them together as an attack on all SA men/all men commenting on this article because it's obviously going to illicit a defensive response. Just as getting defensive serves no useful purpose here, the attacks serve no useful purpose either, particularly when people are already on the defensive.It's up to all of us to turn 16 days per year of activism into 365 days per year. But we won't achieve that if we simply rise up and attack each other. The only thing we'll achieve by doing that is to remain divided.One of the things that I think many of us seldom do is take a step back and try to imagine what the experience might be like for someone else. Like most people, I tend to react with little reflection. I'm just not in the habit of doing it. I started to think about what the world might look like to Sam and I can start to see just a glimpse of the frustration that might've led to what she's written coming out the way it did. I can see the frustration that will have led to some of the reactions to it, too, but that's easier since my first reaction was to get completely defensive and want to retaliate as well. And yes, some of that is in what I wrote earlier. But I do still think that what I wrote is valid.Perhaps this is the first step we all need to take - just take a bit of time to try to imagine the other person's perspective. And for myself and others who've been asking what more can we do, one thing we can do is to remind ourselves and those around us to do just that. And then do it.
Nico Pretorius 11/25/2009 9:02:19 PM
Sam...I hate guys who rape beat and treat women and children badly, but to generalise (and you do) is a mistake. Unfortunately for us (South African men), we live in a society where statistics are publicised and talked about. Therefore, we seem like the worst of the worst. Just think how bad it must be for the women who live in countries where "official statistics" paint the men to be angels. It must be hard to convince anybody that you are being abused. So guys, unless you are guilty, relax, support the women and children in your lives the best you can. Most activists do something merely to be seen in any case, so don't worry. Rather make a difference at home and where you can...365 days a year!!!, not just 16, when people like Sam try to act holier than the rest of us and insult us. I am pretty sure that those responsible for these sort of abuses are in the minority and not the majority. It is sick, shameful and should be dealt with severely. It is important, however, to know in which communities, racial groups etc, the problem is out of control, then (oh dear) admit it!! Then only can we take appropriate action. But until we stop being sooooo politically correct that we are not allowed to disclose the race of rapist, killers, child molesters....how the f@#^@ do you expect any REAL action to be taken. By the way...I do sympathise with you for having to deal with all these people, but it is by choice...nobody forced you, so please pardon me if I don't accept that as any "qualification" to voice such a badly thought-out opinion. Next time, instead of bad-mouthing all South African men, why don't you come up with a solution that is plausible within the current "politically correct" environment we live in. I am sure you do good work and I am sure you will continue to do so....please just vent your anger in the right direction....
SAL 11/25/2009 9:08:13 PM
At the end of the day it is about respect!!!! No matter WHAT a women (or man) does they do not deserve to be physically or emotionally abused. There are other ways of solving problems.....worst case getting out. There is no excuse for a man to abuse a women just as there is no excuse for a women to take advantage of a man. The sad truth is that in society people do take advanage of other peoples weaknesses to make themselves feel better about themselves! You are the only one responsible for your own happiness so stop blaming the opposite sex and get out if you need too. I am a white middle class LADY who chose to leave this behaviour and I can assure you it is not so easy when your life and children are at threat.It's about choice and yes we all have that choice! So all you gentlemen and ladies out there, if you are not happy change things,if you want a different result do things differently, no one else is responsible or can do it for you. Its a hard road to follow but I would rather be alone and true to myself than being somebodies trophy. So to all those genltlemen out there who have not found a lady, we do exist, BUT where do you meet descent people nowdays?
CTheB 11/25/2009 9:50:10 PM
Oops, that should've been 'elicit', not illicit. Too many hours at work, not enough sleep.
camelthief 11/25/2009 10:15:01 PM
I wrote earlier, but I am now so embarrassed and appalled at what some of the 'men' above have written, I really don't want my comments to be associated with theirs. I did say, and still do, that I think there is something really wrong in this country the way so many men behave towards women and children. I also ask, and still do because there is no answer from anyone here: please advise me what I should do to really show support and make a difference..??.and be careful in assuming you know what I already do or don't do. We real men who are against women abuse in any form, and who never blame women for it...still look for something useful and practical to do to help. Perhaps I live in a cocoon by having no knowing contact with abusive men..so how do I help?
camelthief 11/25/2009 10:38:30 PM
"What I am asking is: why are the nice men among us (and there are many hundreds of thousands of GREAT men), not ostracising this great swathe of deserters and abusers?" How do you ostracise people with whom you have no contact? "Why aren’t men that don’t pay maintenance ridiculed by their peers?" How do I ridicule men with which I have never had any links? "How is it that men who beat up their wives have any friends at all?" I don’t know the answer to this anymore than you do "How can rape be a frat house joke?" I’ve never seen this except in American movies. The word and concept of Frat isn’t even used in SA. "Why are nice men not especially careful to treat women with respect, and to judge other men by that benchmark?" I don’t know if I am a nice man, some say I am, but I do treat women with respect and I think men who don’t are poor excuses for human beings. What else must I do? ".. I want to take this opportunity to say to South African men: Shame on you." Why must I be shamed..what should I do differently..bring some practical ideas and I shall be up there with you, like I am with other important causes..but I do feel ashamed of the statistics. "This is too horrifying a situation to be expressed only in women’s voices. It’s time to pitch in, and help clean up this mess." Yes it is horrible, but how? "So I am asking you, men of South Africa – what are you personally going to do during this 16 Days of Activism." Well, I’m not going to march, because this country needs to move away from marching and start doing. I’m not going to preach to those around me, because they don’t need to hear it. I could write a letter to the government about the example they’re setting and the lack of support for victims..but do I think that will achieve anything...no. I have no behaviour change (in this regard) I can think of and I would welcome anyone who knows me to point out where I need to change - perhaps I’ll ask them. I will be doing some work with local government around service delivery, which should help indirectly...but I was going to do that anyway. I’d like to hear from all of those out there who want men to "do something"...what exactly do you have in mind?
Nick 11/25/2009 11:01:18 PM
Not very thought provoking and pretty amateurish. Cheap shot really!
Cameron 11/25/2009 11:06:04 PM
How about sixteen days of activism against male bashing?

Vic 11/25/2009 11:12:09 PM
It is so en vogue to support gay marriage and then you ask "where are our men?".

Pick a set of rules that are all encompassing and stick to them. You liberals keep flip flopping any way that suits you, whenever it suits you.

When a man stands up to be counted you sneer at him at tear him down, and then you ask "where are our men?"

To the millions of men who will get up in the morning to support their families with tender loving care, I salute you!

A Lo 11/25/2009 11:21:26 PM
I date a scandanavian girl. She is liberated in the true sense of the word. She has no axe to grind and treats me, and everyone else with a very mutual respect. Naturally, this is reciprocated. We share all responsibilities even the traditional ones like cooking (women) and buying condoms (men). When she points out my faults - she directs them at me, not my gender in general. I can't say any of the above for my SA ex girlfriends.

As a nation we are clearly a long way behind. But as with racial relation, inflaming the situation (as this clearly does), is not going help.
Thanks for bring our attention to your cause, Sam. Now, should we join you, or should we help reinforce your stereotyping?

If it is the former, as I hope, I look forward to an apology - your article clearly got the wrong reaction.
ManfromtheUS 11/25/2009 11:39:36 PM
Speaking from my perspective in Western (US) society and culture, it seems South Africans are approaching the slippery slope of feminism and its inherent evils.

What? Still thinking straight after reading that? Well read on.

There are many injustices existing in the world, and to highlight one side, based on gender alone, is going to drive a definite stake between men and women (family). Numerous studies show that domestic violence is reciprocal, sometimes female-only initiated and perpetrated, and sometimes male-only initiated and perpetrated. Indeed, its a slippery slope, soon you'll have a multi-billion dollar, government funded/subsidized, DV industry that believes only males commit acts of violence against women. I'm not even sure if 10% of DV shelters found in the US accept men w/ children or men alone. Sound fair? Its not.

Domestic violence is wrong, but to take the stance that only men are 1) evil, 2) responsible for starting it, 3) responsible for fixing it. Hah. Perhaps you'll be joining the US soon in a race to who can demonize men faster.

See you at the bottom!
GavinC 11/25/2009 11:40:33 PM
@CTheB: illicit was quite cool there though ;) You're quite right about trying to put ourselves in the shoes of others. I feel however that we've had more than enough time to do so – as men we don’t HAVE to do anything – this won’t change unless we are challenged; unless we are kicked out of our comfort zone. Patting ourselves on the back and pretending we’re not part of the problem helps no one.
There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with what you’re saying, but setting a good example does not rid us of the bad guys. While clearly you’re not indifferent, you must admit this message is hardly conveyed to them – they’re scarcely likely to follow our example, we need to actively fight the behaviour as opposed to just ‘keeping our own end up’.
Joe 11/26/2009 12:28:35 AM
Women won't get beat if they just know their place.
blake 11/26/2009 1:20:45 AM
Want equality? You've got it darlings. Dont come whinging to me when you've got a problem, take it like a man. : P
whataboutthechildren 11/26/2009 2:14:13 AM
"...by beating up their wives and children"

... please get the facts straight... women are the primary abusers of children. Indeed, it is from their primary abusers that children first learn violence.
Big Nuz 11/26/2009 6:01:29 AM
All they cry and btich about is goddy style. Give them more, they are quite. Push until they faint, after that they are quite
Pete 11/26/2009 6:23:39 AM
Sam, there is a complex issue behind these issues. Think of African men (a vivid symbolic example), who once found their identity in defending their tribes. They were allowed to stand round the fire and swap stories because they had done their bit. Now they are not needed, so all they can still do is hang around and tell stories (true for too many, certainly not all). Their womenfolk have been empowered at their expense (or at least they are justified in perceiving that to be the case), so their diminished worth is invoking the most primal and dangerous instincts - to reassert themselves, albeit misguidedly. Heck I hate the abuse and marginalisation of women, but until we dignify both genders, violence will persist. Until men are restored to value in our culture (without marginalising women), they will not turn. They need a vital identity to tame their wildness, but our schools and our culture at largely doing just the opposite - marginalising and emasculating them, putting women at risk and denying children a vital male role model. The next generation could be more violent if the tide does not turn.

SB 11/26/2009 6:42:00 AM
Mmmm, judging by some of the negative comments some can either not read or are guilty......
Tarras Bulba 11/26/2009 7:15:35 AM
Since you can't blame things on apartheid, I guess we'll be scapegoat, right?

You're the prime example of a woman that's either single because guys don't think you're worth the maintenance . . . or if you HAVE a guy/husband he must be a masochist. Then again, I might've completely overlooked that you're a lesbian ...

By the way ... the "Men" in this country are constantly 'metrosexualised' by women what with pink shirts and 'opening up' and all that crap.

Give us a club and leave us to our own devices.
Simon 11/26/2009 7:27:05 AM
Guys, read the article!

Sam says: "What I am asking is: why are the nice men among us (and there are many hundreds of thousands of GREAT men), not ostracising this great swathe of deserters and abusers? "

I think that makes a very large distinction between men who beat their wives and men who don't. She doesn't say they are the same thing so get your heads out of your arses and use your eyes.

You're all defensive. For no real reason.
Timeshare 11/26/2009 7:37:05 AM
Every evil man had a mother that didn't care.
pete 11/26/2009 7:39:11 AM
There is another concern - the mines and otehr industries separated husbands from their families and so encouraged absent fathers, promiscuity etc. The internal factions fights reflect how the system invoked the primal urges and tensions of men, but the consequences are still touching our culture - partly because of learned behaviours, partly because of a lost generation and partly because the angers of the past are now being taken out on this generation. I know their are arguments and counter-arguments, I am just making the point that this debate is complex and needs to be seen in perspective.
@Sam Tuffy Asks 11/26/2009 7:41:32 AM
How about arranging a date with Dorothy Black? Seems like she could be huge fun to know....
Gerhard 11/26/2009 7:48:07 AM
I'll treat them excactly the way I always do, with love and respect. Women is a gift from above, to cherish and to hold close. My blessings to all of you out there...
Guy 11/26/2009 7:53:23 AM
I wonder who pays for all the SUV's and 4x4 double cabs that dither around shopping malls, spa's and gyms carrying soccer moms and kids around at all (working) hours of the day? Working men maybe?
Dany 11/26/2009 8:28:42 AM
I agree that we need to get our acts together as men But its really hard to do it with a Women trying to sit on your head. We are the heads of our house-holds yes we messed up in the past but in todays world more men cook,clean,raise children,even take on other men who are not playing the part,yet in the same time our Women are loosing their minds. They cheat like dogs,try to sit on our heads and think their positions at work must run after hours... A frustrated men will always react out of character. To Women I want to say pls hold yourselves together,a respectable Women is respected only a fool will abuse a good Women. But if you watch to much Tv and see all this Women movements and allow it to get into your head than good luck,and remember that a frustrated Men almost always acts out of Character.
blondie 11/26/2009 8:35:54 AM
I feel for the guy that sam is with. Shame dude. You need a new partner.
3shot 11/26/2009 8:46:35 AM
Let's be clear ladies and gents: We are NOT saying that it is OK for men to (physically) abuse women. What we are saying is that women are also human and adult. They need to stop blaming everything that happens to them on men and take some responsibility too. I have left various very beautiful, sexy but abusive women. Some emotionally abusive, some physically so! On the physical side I don't even hesitate: if she hits me, or pushes me to a point where I nearly manhandle her, I'm GONE. And it never takes long for the physical ones to show. Why can't women do the same? Because they don't want to work, that's why. They tolerate the abuse due to material gains. As soon as she gets a steep increase in income, believe me she's gone!!! I'm even single and childless today because I wouldn't tolerate (emotional) abuse from a woman.
gus 11/26/2009 8:55:25 AM
okay..lets get real here..you ask, what are the good men doing about the bad men..what do you want us to do?, gang up together and drag those crappy men out into the streets, beat and rape them up the same way they treated their women..we, the good guys, choose not to be friends with these crappy men and in so doing shun them..the saying goes, "birds of a feather flock together"..we dont flock with them..

now ladies..i do feel that those who have been abused should go for councelling and actually deal with those issues personally and not to expect a good guy to "save" them, because why should the good guy have to deal with an emotional wreck who now puts the good guy through hell with sudden anger outburst, emotional rollercoaster rides, suicide attempts, false accusations, she runs down the street screaming that the good guy is going to kill her, while the good guy justs stands there and askes "what just happened??"..this kind of behaviour on the womans part is because if she did that to a bad guy, well, she gets beat up..and now her release is to take it out on the good guy..it also comes as a surprize to the good guy when futher into the relationship he finds out that she is on anti-psycotic drugs so she can "dull" her mental pains..

good guys dont want that..we dont want to "fix" what another bad guy has broken..it becomes unfair on the good guy, thats not how he wanted his life to go..

go get councelling, yes, it wont be a quick fix and suddenly your "fixed"..it will take time, anything from 2 years to 20 years..rather be "fixed" when you meet a nice guy..in the meantime the nice guys will be doing the things we njoy, sailing, diving, going on holidays local and overseas, horse riding, mountain biking, hiking, surfing, taking our dogs for walks, donating to worthy causes, visiting and enjoying family..
i have met sum amaizing women who sorted out their lives and i cherish their friendship..and its sad just how few there are who can live FREE from their abused history..
Michelle 11/26/2009 9:10:52 AM
Lets not get confused,
Being a MALE, does not Necessarily make you a MAN.
Some of these responses are so Chauvinistic.
If you dont have respect for woman at least show self respect, and the activism is for children too. And just to let some of you know, the truth is there are good men out there, its just a pity that a few flakes such as some of you drag your gender through the mud..
A.J. Venter 11/26/2009 9:16:29 AM
The 16-days thing is blatantly sexist. How about 16 days of activism against violence ? Period. No special treatment.

The worst part is that this actually perpetuates the myth that men abuse more than women - when one scientific study after another keeps confirming that abuse has no gender bias. Men get abused as often as women (though reporting rates are far lower due to the stigma that a battered man face).

More-over several studies have shown that abusive women consistently use more severe violence than abusive men !

Yet when talk-show hosts address the issue of battered men - it's with disbelieve and the old "a real man wouldn't ever get beaten" schtick.

Well, I'm no weakling, but I *was* a battered husband. I know two more very closely, one of my near relatives and one of my closest friends.
What we all have in common however, is that after one too many fists/thrown objects/scratch marks that take months to heal... we left.

We got divorced. I stayed through two years of living hell - trying to make my mariage work. Until the day, it was one blow too many. We all left sooner or later, and I've made a decision since then - nobody will ever hit me again.
No second chances. Not ever. I see myself as a survivor, not a victim.

I feel empathy with other abuse survivors REGARDLESS of their gender. If you think my being male, and stronger than her - made it hurt any less when she punched me - then you have no clue.

Sorry, I won't support something that trivialises what was done to me, and pretends that it never happens, and then expects me to give sympathy to one group of people going through it exclusively.

I believe in equality, I believe in equal opportunity - but I also believe in equal responsibility.

Nobody would pretend it's anything *but* blatantly sexist to pretend that hitting a man is less bad than hitting a women (except for the kind of manhating psychos that also propose firemen testing shouldn't include physical strength tests as it reduces the number of women who can qualify, and that being able to carry a person out of a burning building is less important than having a 50/50 employment split) - yet, that's exactly what this 16-days thing does.
It says, basically, that hitting a women is a terrible crime that deserves special activism - hitting a man is not.

Sorry, I will join activism against violence, no matter it's nature shape or form - but I will not support anything that suggests one kind is worse than another.

The Horned God 11/26/2009 9:33:27 AM
Well, having read some of the comments above (it just got too sickening to read them all) I have to say I am ashamed of being from the male sex, if those ridiculously over the top and ultra defensive men commenting represent the majority of SA males!! Women are to be protected and cherished, they are the lifegivers and the physical representation of The Goddess, and as such, it is our duty to look after them with our very lives, if necessary.

That said, I do feel that the current drive to place men and women on an equal footing (and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that) has left many men feeling lost and somewhat emasculated, as we are unsure of our exact roles in this new society - women are doing (traditionally) male jobs, bringing home the bacon themselves, and - as Zion pointed out - often feel you are patronising them if you try and be a gentleman. It makes it much harder for us to be the kind of men my father brought my brothers and I up to be, because very little of what used to be considered chivalry is now even acceptable to many women...

...it does make things much more difficult for men, but I guess it is also an issue we need to overcome.
John the Saint 11/26/2009 9:57:12 AM
Women always comlain about abuse, yet they almost always choose the "Bad Boys".

Sorry girls, respect is not something you get, it is earned. If you make your own bed you must sleep in it.
Stephan 11/26/2009 10:04:18 AM
I think your column is infair generalisation. I am one of those good men, and my circle of friends will never include rapists, child molestors or sexual offenders.
ani 11/26/2009 10:09:43 AM
I had no idea Neanderthals could type. Well done, SA males.

It's ok.. there are enough good people (male and female) that will work to make this world a better place.
Those kind of people dont need 16 days of activism.
However, I hope the campaign helps someone out of an abusive relationship. We need to get the word out that this kind of behaviour is notacceptable in our society.

Enough.
Peace out.
STATS 11/26/2009 10:22:50 AM
CAN ANYONE ANSWER Hi IQ.SEE QUESTION AT 12:30:22 ON 25/11
JS 11/26/2009 10:44:38 AM
Pathetic article! Shame on you. Every year should have 365 non-abusave days for woman and children. Men who abuse their wifes do not shout it from the rooftops, so how do you snif them out??
Colleen Figg 11/26/2009 10:45:02 AM
here is what I have to say about the 16 days of activism; they are pointless window dressing; READ MY BLOG PLEASE: http://blogs.news24.com/colleenfigg/16-days-of-activism
Lisa 11/26/2009 10:51:44 AM
Reading through all the comments from the men above, I can only say: Thank heavens I'm a LESBIAN!! My wife nad I couldn't believe what you guys come up with. Shame on you. Sam was only saying that abuse is a reality and that we should pay attention.
CTheB 11/26/2009 11:04:08 AM
@GavinC: I disagree. Yes, setting a good example won't immediately rid us of a bad guy like dragging him out into the street and shooting him in the back of the head will, but no one has yet proposed anything better. Even Sam is simply asking why is no one setting a good example because however she's experiencing what goes on has led her to believe that even the guys she's calling nice are no better than the bad guys because they're obviously all conding the behaviour. Yes, some people are effectively condoning it by not ostracising those who engage in it, but some people are.

Bear in mind that setting an example includes things like taking to task someone who treats another person inappropriately.

In what way would doing something like walking down a street with a placard be more effective than actions that set examples?

Yes, people need to get out of their comfort zones, but insulting and attacking people isn't going to achieve that, it's going to make people hunker down in their comfort zones.

The whole point of doing things like putting ourselves in someone else's shoes is to achieve exactly that. If I talk to friends of mine about the thought process that has occurred for me around this issue, it'll be far more likely to get them thinking about it than lambasting them for being bad guys because they don't do more than they're currently doing (whatever the more might be. It remains unspecified). And perhaps what goes through their heads will push me a bit more. And they'll talk about it to other friends and so on and so on.

I'm not just talking about some passive thing that only lives inside a particular person's head and allows them to feel good about themselves. I'm talking about something that challenges them on an ongoing basis and encourages them to challenge those around them. But in a constructive rather than destructive way.
CTheB 11/26/2009 11:06:23 AM
@STATS - can you explain what difference it would make to have that information?
Goose 11/26/2009 11:10:34 AM
From the million responses above, it is obvious that a big problem is that firstly, people don't READ properly, and secondly, they don't stick to the facts!
Wake up men-she is addressing a national issue here. To get defensive is absolutely childish. Read the article for waht it is, and do your bit to make the country a better place. Period!
Gary 11/26/2009 11:23:22 AM
I don't think that much is going to be done in 16 days. This should be a issue 365 days a year. I think that I can talk for majority of the guys in here and say that I don't condone any violence of any sort towards any other human being. I don't hang out in a circle of friends that even has one of these persons that you mentioned in it.
STATS 11/26/2009 11:26:28 AM
@CTheB It will show where the problem lies so that it can be addreessed "going forward"
Rea 11/26/2009 11:33:53 AM
Oh goodness me Sam, after reading the comments it just shows you how ignorant the public is about this thing. They don't even recognise the facts that stare them in the face. And the idea this is an ANC thing? The negative comments just proved your point and they don't even realise it!!! It is so sad that South African men can be like this. Thanks for doing your share to raise awareness!!!
Blessed Be and HUGS!!
SOUTH AFRICAN 11/26/2009 12:11:44 PM
The following from a guy I used to work with: should he return home late after a work
related delay,or other, his wife would scream so loud the whole block heard: Was jy weer by jou f***ken hoere weer. This lady in particular had an obsession with "hoere" I can only praise this guy for not beating her up now and again or just up and leave.
Shameful male? 11/26/2009 12:37:28 PM
"Oh goodness me Sam, after reading the comments it just shows you how ignorant the public is about this thing. They don't even recognise the facts that stare them in the face."

So, I am a "South African male", whatever that might be, we're all the same I suppose.

I have stated above that I don't condone violence and abuse perpetrated on anyone, (I am specifically involved in animal anti-cruelty issues), and I move in circles where I don't know of anyone who is an abuser, or is abused. Should I be asking everyone I meet, "Excuse me, are you an abuser?"

I've asked twice already, instead of wishing "Shame" on me, please give me some practical ideas of what I could/should be doing.

If nothing is forthcoming, I can only assume that,
i)you actually don't have any practical suggestions, and are speaking out of a sense of hopelessness, in which case, hopefully someone can come up with solutions (nothing in sight yet), or
ii)this article was written with the express intention of eliciting hits for your website, in which case, shame on you.

Shameful male? 11/26/2009 12:40:34 PM
In fact, the only person making any sense so far is CTheB.
Marc 11/26/2009 12:50:20 PM
The thig with most SA women is that they expct everything on a platter. Andf they dont get ithey cry foul and run off to the lobbyists. Our women whinge about SA...sweethearts you have it easy in SA, go to most other places in the world and you will come back with tails between your legs. You have EE, women empowerment etc.Im appaled by the average SA woman's attitude, they want respect but arent prepared to earn it, its all about them and their needs. Yes there are genuinely abused women out there who I really feel for, but judging by the utter tripe Sam and her henchwomen are dishing it, you would think ALL women are 'abused' by a man. And if you ladies hate men so much, then why marry one and have kids? Do you hate your sons because they are men? These women are embarrasinlgy pathetic
Sigh 11/26/2009 12:57:42 PM
Now that was 2 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Here I thought I was gonna read an article of how we as men can improve, but rather got labelled as an abusive rapist. Next time choose a better title. Perhaps "All You South African Men Can Die In Hell" would have worked better.
MEN 11/26/2009 1:29:58 PM
I agree Sigh. What a colossus waste of time. What about some '16 days for the hard working MAN' activism?
Hecate 11/26/2009 2:00:07 PM
It deeply saddens be to see how much animositly men still have towards women, there was a time when women and men were equally respected. Each had a role to play in the survival of the tribe/clan, then along came "the burning times" and everything changed. Please don't try and justify and pretend that the last couple of centuries of abuse, exclusion and treating women like second rate citizens never happened. We are so sorry for trying to claim back our freedom, and yes, some of us might get a bit miss guided at times and go a bit too far with wanting to be indipendant, but can your really blame us? There once was a time where it was preached from the pulpit that it's ok to beat your wife in order to save her mortal soul! I think some of these comments show just how insecure you men are. We are also just trying of find our new identities and to claim back our power that was taken away from us.
hairy ape 11/26/2009 2:05:45 PM
Thank goodness it's only 16 days or 2 x PMS periods. Imagine being bombarded and insulted by the fairer sex all year round !
True Perspective 11/26/2009 2:07:43 PM
Most men hate cause driven events. The 16 day event in question has zero impact on the actual offenders. Offenders couldn't care less about activists, in fact they ridicule them. Also, men generally do not discuss such issues with other men - we do not kiss and tell, so how would you know if your best friend clobbers his wife? If you don't witness it yourself, you won't know, because he's not going to confess it to his best friend over a cup of tea in the mall. Mothers should properly educate their little boys and fathers should set the example at home, instead of raising spoiled brats who get abusive when they don't get their way. Most decent guys support the cause in prin ciple, but we detest activists and slogans and do not believe that it has any real effect on the actual offenders.
MK 11/26/2009 2:15:25 PM
Hecate: Yawn. Move on...
Dr Cyanide 11/26/2009 2:50:09 PM
Easyiest solution us men can follow to improve the lot of woman : slaughter rapists, abusive spouses, adulterers ect with impunity and extreme prejudice.

well thats the opinion of one devoted an loving husband (abite blood thirsty I agree)

mind you my wife tends to lean towards simply slaughtering any one with an IQ of less than 100
lilo 11/26/2009 3:14:17 PM
Clearly all the men who have commented negatively have some serouis issues.This article was not attacking any of you. This is just an indication of how weak some of you are and abuse being the only way you can proof that you are the man. Even right now you remarks are extremely abusive, And then you want to turn around and say all man are not the same.
SOUTH AFRICAN@SOME 11/26/2009 3:27:56 PM
I refer to my last posting and feel that I may be judged negatively. Then so be it. I was married, happily for 35yrs, so death done us apart. What I am refering to is my experiences mainly of persons I know and their ups and downd in holy matrimony.;A few years ago we had these big campaigns to uphold women and so forth. Never men. Women were seen as the alpha and the omega. men remained unheard. Strike a woman then you strike a rock of the nation. Women were urged to report their husbands to the cops if they were abused in any way. What recourse was their for the husband-none. I have known women to knock the hell out of their husbands yet get away with it because it bears a stigma to, firstly, be abused by a woman, and, secondly, to run to the cops because "my wife is knocking the crap out of me". The playing field is uneven. Violence is not the answer. What is. Definitely not 16 days. When we see a slatten woman on the street we experience different emotions than if it was a male. We are conditioned, by society to be subversive to our better halves. The last sentence tells it all.
3shot 11/26/2009 3:39:56 PM
@lilo. I still wait to see which one man commented in favour of woman abuse here. It is indeed perfectly acceptable if a woman abuses a man, and any of us who dare question women abuse are labelled "weak" by you and your kind. Men are more often than not the victims of abuse (not only physical), and they dare never complain, otherwise they are "weak". Of course abuse of females exists, we don't deny that. We are only highlighting that it happens to men too. Difference is, men usually simply leave and carve new lives for themselves. No matter how painful it is to do that.
dad 11/26/2009 3:41:21 PM
This is a fantastic fund raiser for any organisation……to be seen to be associated with this group……maybe attention should be given to children who are fatherless through the inefficiency of our legal system who allow mothers to remove fathers from families.
I used to be all for fighting the cause of abuse against women and children. I agree that men can be abusive. Having been placed on the other side of the fence, I see that WOMEN are extremely abusive, as much as men are.
thinking of media advertising.. they portray men as incompetent idiots, and have steadily broken down respect anyone should have for the father role. No wonder fathers give up. This is one of the reasons that our country is in such a mess.
Nobody really cares about the children, it’s a women’s rights campaign. In our society, why are only women identified with children? Where is God’s order in this… These groups end up breaking down trust in the good men, while breaking down family values, instead of teaching people(including women) how to respect one another.
It’s not politically correct to challenge women on abuse. Maybe there should be another ‘victim’ group of abuse against fathers and their children? Better yet, lets ditch the 'victim' groups, and start taking responsibility for ourselves.
I challenge you to try it, and see how quickly any organisation disappears through lack of funds or support.
Alan 11/26/2009 3:53:49 PM
Yawnnnnnnnn another Theron i see
Stirrer 11/26/2009 4:26:04 PM
GO BOKKE !!!!!!!!
What was the question again ???,,,,,,
camelthief 11/26/2009 10:29:49 PM
I'm still waiting for one answer to my question..now posted three times: what practical acts do you think I could do to do the right thing? I am honestly asking this question, not trying to defend anything. I haven't seen much in the way of practical suggestions. So how do I get off the list of nice men who supposedly don't do anything and therefore should be ashamed? And some of you really should read the article...because that is in effect what it says..that even the 'good'guys should be ashamed because they do nothing..in fact that is the main point in her argument. So wonder why so many guys are a bit peeved...? But again, a genuine question: give me some practical ideas and I commit to doing them and reporting back
AR 11/26/2009 11:14:23 PM
Good article if one judges purely by the "nerve" it hit (guess good journalism polarizes and sparks opinion).

Just a pity the author missed the crux of the problem with a patronizingly feministic attack on the male gender in SA. Further losing what little validity her argument had by aiming at the wrong target audience anyway (the bloke behind his office desktop working his a$$ of to give his family the best who’s demographic is as generally opposed to abuse as any civilized society in the world).

The blame lies in front of SA society as a colective. A society that by large perpetuates a patristic (yeah African) culture where woman are child bearers and possessions (think JZ and his harem and Malema and the ANCYL boy’s attack on those who dared to accuse the “big one” of rape). Or a legacy of a regime (created by a certain minority) who was fueled by migrant workers leaving their children fatherless in the homelands and their fathers shamed, inadequate and whoring in hostels far away.

We all had part in the creating the spawning ground for these monsters. An ill conceived article like this, which in essence places the blame at males (us & them attitude) adds no value but to divide what good men (and women) are left.
Juli 11/26/2009 11:30:09 PM
SCARY! The issue is domestic violence and maybe it should not only be targeted at women who are abused but also men but what I cannot understand is how the men on this website - and yes that is a generalisation and yes not all the men on this site - have proved her point in that men do not take this issue seriously whether it is just being blind and ignorant or being sensitive to these issues makes you less of a man! But when you see what this does to women/Children/men it does directly or indirectly your insensitive and rude comments mean nothing! And to the women who commented about ensuring that she is in safe areas and that God help the Man who lays a finger on her - I was that person until I wasn't anymore! SHame on no-one except the bastards (men and women) who abuse especially children! AND YES as a society we should be standing together to fight this issue!
Scott 11/27/2009 5:05:55 AM
You are totally correct, Sam. Men DO have a cooective responsibility to get rid of teh bravado, bluster and empty boasting, and admit that we do not treat women well. When a woman is abused in some wayt by a man so that she cannot trust them, it shows how this is true. The above comments reinforce the message- not all men are evil, htere are some good ones, but generally men are disengaged from this issue. To the point of condoning it by their ignorance/silence. I feel ashamed to be a man, when I read of children being raped, women being murdered. Those are the stories in the media. Imagine if every woman spoke up- there would be a war. How can these guys say 'what about violence against men'? That 's like whining that you didn't get a present on your kid brother's birthday. Speak up!!
Women24 Ed 11/27/2009 7:22:43 AM
@CamelthiefThere's lots you can do.1) A monthly stop order to Rape Crisis, POWA or any credible NGO that assists victims of violence.2) Speak out whenever you hear of/see abuse happening. I know it's not something often 'bragged about around the braai' (at least I fervently hope not)... but vigilance and attention does challenge the silence around domestic abuse.3) Be a role model. Look to your own relationships; your own family and ask yourself... am I present enough in my child's life? Am I providing an example of manhood that I am proud of?You can see from many of the comments above how badly even these simple steps are needed.I was kinda hoping other men would make suggestions...that didn't involve abusing me.
CTheB 11/27/2009 9:45:46 AM
@STATS: so knowing if there are more white women being raped by black men than black women being raped by black men will show us where the problems lies, will it?

It's likely that knowing some demographic information could be useful, such as knowing age groups or social environments, etc. that are more affected to try to find out why, but knowing what Hi IQ asked about doesn't appear to be likely to contribute anything other than allowing people to jump on the racial horse. And even if they are useful to some, of what use would they be to the average person in the street?

One reason for ignoring such stats is that they allow, perhaps even encourage exactly what the likes of GavinC are complaining about - the "it's not my fault or in my group so it's not my problem" attitude.
Ian 11/27/2009 10:25:06 AM
@Sam, I can not remember the last time I saw someone being raped or abused by a man, but i can assure you that if I were to witness such an act in progress I would, as a real man, take action against the rapist. Crimes such as these usually take place behind closed doors and are not usually spoken about by either the victim or the purpertrators making it difficult for the vast majority of decent men out there to take action.

You however, as the editor of a media forum such as this have considerable power to campaign against injustices such as rape and abuse. Take for instance the case of Sarel Olivier whose wife was raped by policemen 2 weeks ago in Kempton Park. Have you mounted an unrelenting campaign to highlight their plight. Have you named and shamed the policemen who refused to assist them in laying a charge against their fellow policemen? Have you sent hundreds of e-mails to the minister of police questioning why an investigation is not under way? As an editor you are in a powerful position to demand action on their behalf and expose the apathy of those who do nothing to assist.

Instead of writing populist articles to coincide with 16 days of hot air which will have no real impact on the lives of women, how about taking the lead and focusing you efforts where they can make a tangible difference.
Stirrer 11/27/2009 1:00:50 PM
Sam has sly eyes,,,,,,,
Stirrer 11/27/2009 1:26:30 PM
Speaking from the heart, most PEOPLE in an unhealthy relationship have choices, its that simple, I have personally tried to assist a few ladies who were in this situation, only to find guess what, they go back !!!, if its toxic its toxic get out, but thank goodness for something to keep me amused on a Friday afternoon GO BOKKE !!!Oh and Graeme Smith is a plank (or chop you decide )
William 11/27/2009 5:17:09 PM
Male’s alphabet: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
Woman’s alphabet:________________________
eye-wink 11/28/2009 12:50:23 PM
Your Surface-To-Air missile of an article is of the fire-and-forget variety. Capitalising on the real issue is abusive and short-sighted. I trust that Naspers, journos, and readers take note and see through as I do.
;-)
liony 11/28/2009 6:55:13 PM
Jislaaik, what a disappointment! Withe the exception of Chris and Disgusted and I am sure a few others - just could not read any more it was way too disappointing!!!! You men are real a-holes!!! Yeah, and some of the women too! I was an abused wife - I scraped my dignity off the floor with two babies and zero bank balance and left the poephol. He is still telling everyone I was the whore and the addict so that he can feel better about his sorry old ass. Do ANY of you know what it is like to be abused, humiliated, emotionally controlled 0 read the story of the Austrian who intimidated his wife and kept his daughter in the basement and fathered how many kids with her....sick sick sick!!! No woman with attitude can beagt that, surely? Guess what my revenge is? I raised a bespectacled nerdy son who is an angel and certainly not a HUNK. He will respect woman and be kind, as an abused ex wife and mother of three THIS is my contribution to society = well brought up children with good values!
Angel 11/30/2009 12:54:39 PM
What an awesome post Sam! You're very right- we do not stand up for each other enough.
MP3 12/1/2009 8:46:55 AM
Sam are you Pisces?
be_informed 12/2/2009 1:20:36 PM
it seems we all need to take a look into a relationship between a man and a woman where abuse takes place - whether its a man or a woman doing the abusing. look at the process of degrading someone until they believe whole heartedly that you are the only person capable of loving you, providing for you. we might see this issue differently. coming from such a relationship myself i know that its easier said than done to leave such a person. i also said if a man ever lifts his hands. . . the point of this article is to call more men in to join the cause as mostly women fights this issue. not to say you have to go marching perse but set the example. i feel akward when a man makes me walk through a door first because i dont know it. it is extremely rare to find that! what i do know is how a man swears, speak of woman in a degrading way ect. and vice versa. we can all just start by speaking up and saying that is not the way to speak about it. a small way to make a difference for our next generations dont you think?
Productofabuse 12/3/2009 4:19:29 PM
For 13 years my father abused my mother and his 3 young children, his alcohol and drug problems caused us untold horror and grief. He instilled in us so much fear and terror that we were consumed with it. It was living hell, at the time I could not understand why my mother did not divorce him sooner, but kept running away from him just as much as she kept going back to him hoping and praying he would change but he never did. Then eventually after 13 years of abuse she finally left and raised us on her own. Remarried to a wonderful man 3 years after her divorce and is still married 22 years later. The difference: Husband no 1 was psychotic, abusive, disturbed and desperately needed help, but no one was willing to point out his abuse not even his own family because he was a bully. Husband no 2 was and still is loving, kind, compassionate, hardworking and gentle and their marriage is still going strong, as for myself 37 years later I still hold the fear of that abuse in me and cannot commit because of it. People please understand, it not only affects the women it especially affects the children of these abusive relationships, the vicious cycle just repeats itself and in most cases the children comes off the worse in the battle. I think we all are in some form or another by products of abusive relationships. Thank you Sam for your article I'd rather see people comment (good or bad) and that in itself raises awareness than keeping silent!
JD 12/20/2009 10:46:25 AM
There is so much truth about women abusing (emotionally mostly but also violence) little boys. Do you want proof I'll give those that care a lot. Just a general remark, how many times have you heard a mother say, give him a damn good hiding boys must be taught to listen. NEWS FOR YOU.. YOU ARE "BREEDING" VIOLENCE !!. Emotional scars are another area, why not take a look women at what you are doing (wrong). Yes there ar two sides to a sad story. Kids are to be cared for and loved not beaten when you get all heated up with their "misbehaviour" just "because they are boys". Look at your own motherly misdemeanours toward your little boys. DON'T BEAT ANY CHILD. I hope you're honest enough to recognise one of your own problems that you blame on "violent men". Little boys are still children with feelings and emotions, don't make unemotional hard "men" out of these little ones (guilty) mums (and dads).
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