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All rapes aren't equal

Lili Radloff wonders why our discourse for things like pregnancy, miscarriage and rape is so limited, when in fact, the issues are so broad.

At school we were taught that there are no degrees of comparison for certain states. Death was one of them. Pregnancy was another.

While I completely agree that being dead is rather final, I’m guessing that whoever decided that pregnancy doesn’t have degrees of being pregnant (i.e. glowing, swallowed a melon, ready to burst) must have been an idiot or a man. And no, I don't think the two are mutually inclusive.

Recently someone really close to me had a miscarriage. She was still at the barely pregnant stage – just five weeks. And yet she and her husband were very sad and deeply disappointed. But when we talked about it she surprised me with her stoicism.

"It was only 5 weeks. It was not the death of a baby. It was the death of expectation. To call it a miscarriage is unfair to other women who've given birth to still born babies. Or who lost a fetus at 4, 5 or 6 months."

We started talking about the lack of names for different concepts. Miscarriage is a tough one. And unfortunately there aren’t other helpful terms for it. I mean "losing a baby” is even worse. Not only does it open up the whole “when is it a baby?" debate, but it suggests some sort of negligence or error on the mother's side. Blame it on Oscar Wilde if you will.

The point is, something so complex, with so many grades can simply not be described by one umbrella term.

And rape?

Rape is another one of those words. Because despite what certain people will tell you, all rapes are not equal. In the fight to get proper legislation for crimes against women – which included husbands raping their wives, date rape, and the "corrective" rape committed by some despicable conservative extremists – we sacrificed the nuances and grades of the crime in order to be heard.

Last week Sam Wilson wrote a column on how words can be both dangerous and powerful. We think in language and language shapes us. That's why it's so important that we need to distinguish between certain grades and not throw everything in the same basket. Because limiting ourselves to one word for such an important, broad concept actually dis-empowers us. It turns rape into an abstract concept when rape and all the different forms of it is in fact a very visceral crime. So now I’m wondering, why, in the fashion world, are there 16 different words from fuchsia to salmon for "pink" and yet, we have only one word in use for rape?

There's a difference between a husband harassing an unconvinced wife who has a headache and being violently raped and choked with a gun to your head. Surely going home with someone out of your own accord, engaging in foreplay and then being bullied into non-consensual sex is different than being violently gang raped by a group of strangers?

I'm not saying for one moment that it should be any less illegal to force a woman to have sex if she doesn't want to, I'm just wondering: are we not making the crime more acceptable and less punishable by judging everything as having the same weight?

At the moment dangerous sexual predators roam free, preying on our sisters and daughters while we all sigh and shake our heads at the frightening stats of rape in South Africa. I'm worried that by playing the "my pain is just as important as your pain" we are in cutting off our own hands.

As women, surely we should be able to discuss this issue with all the various nuances and shading it deserves? Words are our intellectual infrastructure, why are we so limited when it comes to the issues that are truly important to us?

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- Women24

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Th3MAN 6/10/2009 9:10:13 AM
I dont think, you as a women have any idea of what RAPE is. I think if it would happen to you. You would agree that RAPE is RAPE, regardless of how, or by whom or where it happens. Wake up !!!
piet strydom 6/10/2009 9:27:40 AM
Our discourse is as broad or narrow as our minds are.
Jonathan 6/10/2009 9:28:14 AM
Even that famous feminist Germain Greer agrees with the columnist. See http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/germaine-greer-rape-472379.html
Stairgrazer 6/10/2009 9:36:05 AM
I stopped reading after your 2nd paragraph. Why do some women find it irresistible to take a swipe at men ? Do you truly hate us so intensely ? What have I done to offend you this fine morning ? I am just a regular guy going about his day, thinking I?ll read an article of substance, and you start off by insinuating that I am an idiot. You killed off my interest in your views on rape, ironically by committing an emotional rape against me. You are a fool and you will spend your latter years writing(or maybe only reading) books about why it is great to be 40 (or 50) and single. We have no need or desire for your type.
RobiA 6/10/2009 9:37:07 AM
On your pregnancy issue: I think that as soon as a woman falls pregnant, she is a mother. And when having a miscarriage at any period, it is still a "mother's loss" and that's what hurts. On the rape: That is an issue I think only people who have been raped can answer... I think the very point of having your free will of choosing being taken away from you makes rape horrendous in any situation. Also, another thing about rape... is male rape really rape?
Smee 6/10/2009 9:40:01 AM
Don't try and blur the lines. There is NO gray when it comes to rape. It is wrong and there are no degrees of wrongness to it. I'm actually disappointed in this article.
Marc 6/10/2009 9:40:52 AM
Another feminist on the 'war against males'. Females also commit rape, yet no mention of that...because all men are rapists and out to destroy all things good. Sweetheart, are you a member of the militant lesbian group?
Buffy 6/10/2009 9:42:12 AM
Rape is rape is rape - it is a disgusting, violent crime with no connotations to sex whatsoever. Is it more acceptable for a husband to harass his wife into unwanted sex than to gang rape a young girl?? What?? NO is NO regardless of who is 'asking' the question. You have clearly never been in this situation and should be aware of how easily your can offend those who have
Daniel 6/10/2009 9:51:03 AM
These women that write anti-men posts here that are against men are either lesbian, cannot get a guy themselves. I would also like to question these women that dress like prostitutes(about 1in 3 in jhb anyway) then go to areas they know attract attention, and then wonder why guys whistle at them.
Daniel 6/10/2009 9:52:30 AM
These women that write anti-men posts men are either lesbian or cannot get a guy themselves. I would also like to question these women that dress like prostitutes(about 1in 3 in jhb anyway) then go to areas they know attract attention, and then wonder why guys whistle at them.
Adi 6/10/2009 9:53:25 AM
Excellent article. I'm always intrigued by the fact that so many people need to view things in absolute black and white. This does not help us to understand our world, or communicate our realities. The same can be seen from the comments so far: Robia, Smee and Th3man all immediately jump to the conclusion that acknowledging the full nuances of terms such as rape and miscarriage must necessarily imply that it is made 'less wrong', or 'less hurtful' somehow. This does not lead to discussion and understanding but closes all communcation on the subject down immediately.
Jonathan 6/10/2009 9:53:40 AM
Germaine Greer: "There is a solution, but it is not recognised as such by feminists or legislators. That is to abolish the crime of rape altogether, and instead to expand the law of assault to include sexual assault in varying degrees of gravity; so that, for example, mutilating assaults on children would be recognised as many times graver than penetration of a grown woman".
Jenny 6/10/2009 10:00:08 AM
I have been date raped, and even though it was at knifepoint and it was a terrible thing I don't think of it as the same as being raped by a gang of men. I also can't compare it to a baby or a child being raped.
Louw 6/10/2009 10:01:19 AM
Stairgrazer, you ARE obviously an idiot - find out what the term mutually inclusive mean, please. And if you still wonder why Lili made a light comment about the fact that men sometimes don't understand the issue, please read Daniel and Marc's responses to this very thought-provoking article.
Opinionated guy 6/10/2009 10:03:25 AM
Judging by the majority of SA birds nowadays, who most seem to be overweight and unappealing, they need not worry about being raped at all.
Sean 6/10/2009 10:05:50 AM
Stairgrazer That's exactly what I wanted to say!
John Connor 6/10/2009 10:13:36 AM
This article reflects the attitude of SA women these days: " Its all about me, me , me" Drop the attitude of entitlement
Lize 6/10/2009 10:13:37 AM
Wow, it seems the moment you ask a well thought out question with real merit the bullies come out of the woodwork to beat you into submission. My sympathy, Lily. If it helps, I think your article shows a keen sense of understanding of both wrong and right, along with a healthy dose of perspective, and served with a touch of kindness.
Joe 6/10/2009 10:18:01 AM
You can add fake rape to your list. Some of your 'sisters and daughters' like to lie - usually just to get back at someone. I am though talking about the ones that truly lie, not cases where there simply isn't enough evidence, etc... It destroys lives (including that of children and their mothers) and makes it more difficult for real rape victims.
Dude 6/10/2009 10:18:10 AM
I'm quite surprised by some of the responses to this article - guys are being defensive, suggesting that this article is tantamount to a feminist attack on men; and women are losing the plot entirely by thinking that the writer is suggesting that some forms of rape are lesser evils than others. Most folk are missing the point completely - just take another look at the fourth last paragraph: the point is that some forms of rape are less traumatic than others, given the circumstances. So, yes, they should not carry the same weight in terms of sentencing. This could be read as suggesting that the current punitive measures be reduced depending on the specific circumstances, but it could also be read as a call for harsher punishment based on circumstances. Yes, this is perhaps the most evil of crimes and, if I had my way, all rapists would be shot. However, surely any sane person would agree that the penalty for a bunch of strangers gang-raping an 80 year-old woman or a 4 year-old child should be far more severe than in the case of a date rape, or non-consensual sex?
eugene 6/10/2009 10:22:18 AM
Oh for crying out loud women. Rape is RAPE. There is no different degree to it, and is hould have only one punishment...cut the penis off, and the testicals too. I think you should write about things a lot lighter because this is absolute rubish. But props for trying.
Not a victim 6/10/2009 10:23:54 AM
My ex-boyfriend forced me to have sex with him after coming home drunk one night. He was sorry the next day, but not as sorry as when I crashed his new car into a tree on purpose later that day. It was an unpleasant experience and led to the end of that relationship. But surely it's not the same thing as my one friend who was raped at gunpoint by a robber at her home, and who may have gotten AIDS in the process?
Chantal 6/10/2009 10:26:56 AM
Jonathan, you need to re-read your Greer article. She is not saying that rape should be placed in a hierarchical system of severity which is what Lili Radloff is stating. Greer speaks about a hierarchical system of punishment within the scope of assault in which she believes one should place rape. Before one ignorantly expounds such intellectuals as Germaine Greer one should perhaps read more of their work. As for rape I was raped by a 'friend'. I have also miscarried. And to agree with Lili Radloff no it was not as severe as gang rape nor still birth. It is still a painful cross to bear and Radloff should be mindful that she does not minimise the pain of one to maximise the trauma of another.
Grace 6/10/2009 10:27:04 AM
Rape is rape period! The fact that you know the rapist (ie. husband, boyfriend, step-dad or friend) does not make it a lesser crime than if you don't know him/her (ie. a complete stranger). Whether the victim is male or female it is still rape and as such a serious crime.
Michelle 6/10/2009 10:28:04 AM
I agree that all rape is disgusting and illegal and i think the emotional scars for women are all equal, whether it be by a dont-take-no-for-an-answer husband or gang-rape. The only difference that there might be are the external scars and injuries a woman sustains.
Angelique 6/10/2009 10:36:16 AM
I was at a wedding recently where the pastor said in his speech that the wifes body is now her husbands and she must GIVE herself to him completely. I think that leaves room for misunderstanding, as that is what probably also makes men assume that they can force their wives into sex, because the man now thinks his wife is his possession. Definately something i was highly annoyed about at that wedding. What are your views on this? Am I the only one that thinks that statement was wrong?
Susan 6/10/2009 10:37:16 AM
Looks like no one really took the time to read the WORDS of your column Lili! That is what this is about - the WORDS
Charlie 6/10/2009 10:39:16 AM
Phew, tough one and two awful topics to consider together. I supoose the courts would consider different circumstances and degrees of rape but to the victim it remains a horrible, sickening and traumatic event - no matter what.
Karin 6/10/2009 10:49:21 AM
I did not think Lili called any man an idiot. She clearly stated "an idiot OR a man. And no, I don't think the two are mutually inclusive." It means that a man (because he is not a woman) may not have the same appreciation for nuances in pregnency - that is what I understand under "not mutually exclusive ".
Anon 6/10/2009 10:50:52 AM
Rape is rape. People experience and process trauma in different ways and the degree of the incident does impact this process but at the end of the day the experience is horrendous and leaves one feeling powerless, guilty, hurt, robbed, almost mutilated whether its your husband in your own bed or 12 strangers in an alley.

The courts decide on the dgree of violence involved and those are seperate or additional charges but with rape there can only be rape in the first degree unlike murder it cannot happen in self defense or out of fear. There is only ever one motivation, hateful power.

This is a poor article and adds no value especially not in the South African context where so many people are traumatised by crime, Anon

georgejack 6/10/2009 10:53:47 AM
RAPE is RAPE-no question about it .. but then please don't call a man a pig for preventing rape by having sex with another willing partner when you withhold it. No is no buffy , you are correct , but then yes is yes and prevention is better then.
Interested 6/10/2009 10:54:12 AM
I read the article and i don't think Lily said date-rape was not bad and shouldn't be punished, I understood her to mean that people who were gang-raped might find it harder to deal with it. The miscarriage story is the same. But as with everything there are exceptions. If you felt you had a baby when you concieved and miscarried 5 weeks later you may feel the same as a woman who had a still birth. And I saw no attack on mean. Why so defensive?
HS 6/10/2009 10:57:30 AM
I honestly don't know if it's worse to be gang raped by strangers than by your husband. My first thought was that gang rape is worse, and then I realised to have a person you love and trust display such violence towards you may be worse.
beryl 6/10/2009 11:04:23 AM
Daniel,Marc, Stairgazer. One wonders why you take this article so personally. No one was acusing you of rape, and so unless you are a rapist, voilent or other, you shouldn't mouth off so. Stairgazer sorry to hear about your emotional rape. Maybe you will now have a little sympathy ? Marc if you had truly read and understood the article you would see the rape of men also applies exactly as Lili writes. And lastly Daniel, we women have no problem with men whistling as us. As long as it stops there. Really such small minds.
Jon 6/10/2009 11:09:42 AM
I actually agree with Lili. While it must be said that rape is rape - we could perhaps go further and classify types or categories of rape. Certain extreme categories should then be punishable by extreme degrees. To think that these two US journalist have just been given 12 years of hard labour in N. Korea, while rapists in SA walk free after 2 years of paid freetime - it's a joke!
Paolo 6/10/2009 11:13:17 AM
I think it is high time for people to think logically instead of taking offense. Lili posited an idea she had and everyone responds by telling her she's an idiot. That is not exactly the way to encourage the free sharing of ideas.
Rupert 6/10/2009 11:15:03 AM
Good Lord! Save us from the stupidity of some people! I find it absolutely infuriating that a lot of you simply did not read or understand the article properly, but still go on to give your aggressive and misguided opinions on it. A moron is one thing, but an opinionated moron is much worse. Read it again and if you don't understand the brilliant point the author makes, go and get a grown-up to help you and explain it to you.
cuba 6/10/2009 11:24:45 AM
interesting article, but doesn't this 'degree of rape' fall into the motivation for the crime? so, when a rape occurs, wether the victim is male or female, do we first look at the motivation of the rape, then proceed with sentencing according to the aforementioned motivation? i think that makes sense, since we already do that with every other crime, but since rape affects the victim & the victims family more than any other crime, no matter what, the sentencing must be as severe as possible
GenY 6/10/2009 11:32:49 AM
The point IS that we are, in a way, making certain crimes more acceptable and less punishable by judging everything as having the same weight. With disappointments, I feel sorry for your friend who might feel that she doesn't deserve the same sympathy as a women who had a still born - doesn't seem fair, but I guess there is a difference...
N 6/10/2009 11:42:20 AM
Rupert, I think you are extremely full of yourself. You know the saying "it takes one to know one"? Why are you SO sure you interpreted the article as the author intended and all the other "morons" did not?? Does it make you feel superior to insult other people like that? If you do not have something worthwile to say SHUT UP
Rodders 6/10/2009 11:53:51 AM
Clearly I read a different article to the one the majority of respondents on this forum did - as I understood it, Lili was discussing issues of expressionism in respect to extremely broad and complicated issues. It's about the WORDS and the means to describe a complicated issue like rape or stillbirth - why do we only have a single term that is catch-all for such an intense and divisive issue? Very, very thought provoking piece, Lili -- from a fellow wordsmith!
CTheB 6/10/2009 12:09:06 PM
I agree that there is some justification in replacing rape with a set of related offenses, much as there isn't only one crime that covers one person killing another. I'm not convinced that such a change would lead to the crime being more likely to be reported, though. As with so many things, it would rely on a concomitant change of attitude - in all likelihood the change would for some time be considered simply semantic. Bear in mind that while words do have power, when something is perceived as simply being a change of words it is very easy for the change to be dismissed. It needs to be clear that this is not simply a word change for the sake of it, but a change of words as a result of an underlying change in what is actually being described. Otherwise all those words will simply be translated to 'rape'.
Percival J 6/10/2009 12:19:16 PM
@ lili. Your article is brilliant, even the Supreme Court of South Africa noted in S v Abrahams that " some rapes are worse than others". Do the people who call you an idiot know that, currently, an eighteen year old boy who has sexual intercourse with his"unconvinced" girlfriend who is 15 years and 11 months old can be (and must ordinarily) be sentenced to life imprisonment if convicted ( Section 51(1) of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 105 of 1997). So much for the general seriusness of ALL rapes - it boggles all intelligent minds.
m 6/10/2009 12:25:27 PM
I sympathise and empathise with your friend who had the miscarriage. I just had one too and I think I was about 6 weeks. It's a horrible feeling where you're ok one day and really sad another. There are distinctions though - I didn't feel like it was a life yet either, but the expectation and excitement of it and what was to be. That the excitement had to be switched off in literally 3 seconds when we didn't hear a heartbeat and knew there was nothing there. Thanks for the article, interesting reading. Sometimes, words are all we have
Andrea 6/10/2009 12:48:51 PM
@Beryl and Rodders: totally agree with you! Lili, this is a great article - really raises some interesting points. I really wish that news24 would put a filter on the comments page, because I'm tired of reading what verges on ignorant hate speech in the comments, normally from people who haven't even bothered to read, let alone understand, the article. It kind of illustrates the point that so many people can't accept nuance or grey areas, and that's a dangerous thing. Good one, Lili! I really enjoy reading your articles.
@Stairgazer and other strange male posters 6/10/2009 1:31:55 PM
Guys, seriously. Take a breath, read the article again and look for the male bashing in it. Really look for it. You are going to find it in your mind only, because it is not in the article. What Lili is trying to discuss is the possibility that weighting all incidents of violation of whatever manner or measure the same, we may be encouraging such views as yours: women like to whine about everything, even if we just whistle at them. Open your minds a bit and breathe. Allow yourself to read the words and understand the intended meaning. Don't automatically lay your "everybody hates me" template over anything to do with violence against women. You appear unintelligent when you do that and I am pretty sure you are not. Nobody was having a go at you and nobody was calling you names.
aajj 6/10/2009 2:32:54 PM
Very good article and something the law must look at. @Angelique either the preacher didn't say the second part of that line or you chose to leave it out - 1 Corinthians 7 verse 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.
@Buffy 6/10/2009 3:22:16 PM
A husband who tries to convince his frigid wife to have sex when she isn't in the mood is hardly rape. But with that attitude you will never know as no man would be interested in your right wing feminist nonsense! Grow up and stop causing trouble...
dont_agree 6/10/2009 3:47:59 PM
This writer is sexist! she makes no mention of the other side of rape! Which while not as common, occurs as well! I'm speaking about male rape! Sexual predators feeding on our sisters and daughters! What about our brothers and sons? The fact of the matter is everyone runs off about how a woman is raped every so many seconds! what about the men! they are raped by both woman and men! is forcing a man to have sex with someone he doesn't want to not just as demeaning? This writer is a load of rubbish! oh wait, this is women24.com, so sorry that i forgot that woman only give birth to females...
Jacqui 6/10/2009 6:14:39 PM
I understand the point being made, and it's a thoughtful one at that, however I think perhaps one blanket term such as 'rape' is perhaps more useful than a variety of terms that may muddy the issue of non-consent. Rape is forced intercourse without permission or consent, simple as that. What is not so simple are the circumstances in which the rape takes place. And here we DO have terms to dilineate such circumstances: gang-rape, date-rape, sexual assault, molestation, 'corrective' rape, prison rape etc. Perhaps within these broad terms, language can be employed to further define the landscape of brutality surrounding such crimes, but ultimately we come back to the same bottom-line: it is a personal, violent savaging of someone's body and dignity - whether it happens on a dark road or after a romantic dinner. The very idea that a rapist should have his sentence mitigated because he knew the victim personally is absurd. When will the message that NO MEANS NO sink in? It's been hard enough for women's groups and organisations to get the message across - and all these efforts could be eradicated if the word 'rape' no longer applies to rape acts.
RuanB 6/10/2009 6:23:10 PM
I do truly think rape is rape and no is no but there is a degree of difference in any aspect of live cause life is too colourful for a black and white approach. Who and to what degree will decide that difference is a matter that can and will be debated till the end of time. That said I?m a man and do not have any clue what so ever to what it feels to be raped and feels that anybody that rapes regardless the degree should be punished, so I leave you all with this thought: is it same for a man to be raped than for a woman regardless on which sex commits the crime cause as far as I know raping a man in SA is sexual assault and the penalty is not the same for raping a woman in retrospect does rape really means rape and no always means no for all?
RB 6/10/2009 6:29:49 PM
I do truly think rape is rape and no is no but there is a degree of difference in any aspect of live cause life is too colourful for a black and white approach. Who and to what degree will decide that difference is a matter that can and will be debated till the end of time. That said I?m a man and do not have any clue what so ever to what it feels to be raped and feels that anybody that rapes regardless the degree should be punished, so I leave you all with this thought: is it same for a man to be raped than for a woman regardless on which sex commits the crime cause as far as I know raping a man in SA is sexual assault and the penalty is not the same for raping a woman in retrospect does rape really means rape and no always means no for all?
Paul 6/10/2009 6:43:15 PM
Good question. But I'd suggest that rape is rape. Period. If you come home and DEMAND sex, perhaps it is not rape. But if your wife/gf/etc says "not tonight, Selwyn" ... and you force it anyway - it IS rape. As a man, THAT much is very clear to me.
MK 6/10/2009 7:03:53 PM
You have obivously not experienced rape. There is no degree. Rape is rape. NO is NO. Woman who have been raped by their husbands and dates they have taken home already have enough shame to deal with and feel less inclined to report the rapes because society is somehow making them feel guilty for what they are doing. What you are suggesting will only make this worse!
Sophia 6/10/2009 10:26:57 PM
Well said, Lili
Ed 6/11/2009 7:00:48 AM
The ability to play with ideas, or add words to our vocabulary does not make anyone an intellectual. Rather spend time focussing on real heinous acts than perceived injustices against poor womanhood.
@Stairgrazer 6/11/2009 7:20:07 AM
Stairgrazer - you clown... YOU are the one making us men look like fools, READ what is written. Maybe you just do not understand? Some English 101: must have been an idiot or a man. And no, I don't think the two are mutually inclusive. Translated into "simpleton" that means i do NOT think the two are the same. In your case the distinction is not so clear... Next time READ before you post please.
Lara 6/11/2009 8:12:32 AM
I find it rather shocking that people intellectualise about issues like this. Bringing more words to the game will only make it more acceptable for many people. I was molested by my brother. A therapist laughed about it. Had it been my father he would have been in prison. What's the difference? The damage was the same.
David 6/11/2009 8:12:39 AM
Ha - nice one Lili, but good luck getting people to think clearly on THIS topic. I'm afraid "rape" is one of those few words that act as an instant "off switch" to peoples' brains.
Mark 6/11/2009 8:30:56 AM
I'm curious to know why rape against men is not mentioned..? Men too can be raped. Not all women are innocent and frail. Another interesting fact; non-consensual male sex in our prisons is not considered as rape anymore. Great Justice System..
Johnno 6/11/2009 8:45:35 AM
Great Article. I think that it is personal experience that will be the judge of degrees of comparison. Unless someone has been raped by their husband and gang-raped can they say there is a lesser impact. It may seem that there are different degrees, but very difficult to judge. Also, cultural differences may come to play (some cultures deem it acceptable for a husband to demand sex from his wife regardless of willingness).
Jacques 6/11/2009 9:25:04 AM
@Angelique: It's unfortunate that you got the impression that a woman becomes a doormat when she's married simply because the minister said she's to GIVE herself to her husband. If both of them have given themselves to Christ before they got married, they'd be following the biblical standard for marriage. And that is for the man to love his wife just as Christ loves the church ( who is his symbolical wife ). A man is to love his wife sacrificially - willing to give his life just as Christ gave his life for us. Conversely, the woman is admonished to respect her husband and they are both commanded to SUBMIT to one another. Both of them are to LOVE each other as in 1 Corinthians 13 - ESPECIALLY when all the pleasant, exciting romantic feelings have subsided. Love is an act of the will, not some fleeting feeling that comes and goes. Love is to act even when you don't feel like it. The man is not there to lord it over his wife but to "go before her" as her protector, provider and spiritual leader. Even if she's right about most things most of the time (and this is a fact, which is why she's the ideal 'helper'!), she still has to respect her husband's decisions. EVEN if it leads to financial difficulties at times. However, she's not to go along with anything that violates God's law ( which extends to obeying the civil law!). Men on the other hand HAVE to lead spiritually; and it's in this area where most marriages break down. Even if he takes the backseat in all other roles in the house, this is one role he cannot abdicate. It's his role and his alone. Even if the wife reads better, give better lessons or prays better. The man remains the spiritual leader and has to discharge his duty. So in this sense the woman is to GIVE way to the man's leadership and not try and usurp his position. As you can imagine this ideal can only BEGIN to work if they both are submissive to the biblical teaching in the first place.
Tracey 6/11/2009 9:28:38 AM
I don?t agree with you article. Now we all want to distinguish between different names for rape rather than assisting and trying to find ways to stop rape and getting the law in the victims favor. Also why should you insult men in this, not all of them are idiots. I have lost my baby at a very early stage, but still it was my baby not just some fetus. Why did you have to write about something so sensitive?
Lara 6/11/2009 9:39:36 AM
I still wonder how an experience such as rape can be trivialised and individualised like taste in fast food. I experience trauma different than you do. All this can do is create a further perception of 'shut up and take it'. It is a woman's role, Daniel?
Lara 6/11/2009 9:42:14 AM
I still wonder how an experience such as rape can be trivialised and individualised like taste in fast food. I experience trauma different than you do. All this can do is create a further perception of 'shut up and take it'. It is a woman's role, Daniel?
T 6/11/2009 9:51:08 AM
I must say that if I had a miscarriage, no matter how many weeks, the impact of losing my child will be the same so it should not be taken lightly. In so far as rape is concerned, I've experienced it, be it a non violent one, the anger, hurt and disgust was the same. Not to be taken lightly, I'm afraid. It's just an all round unpleasant experience, thanks.
ElectroMan 6/11/2009 10:00:15 AM
Wooo! Some intense emotions bashing out of some here... You touched a sensitive issue for a guy or two. Maybe they have some guilt in the back of their minds. I agree with you Lili. If rape can be broken down in different groups and be judged on the merit of each case, the violent, gang (and individual) rapists could be severely judged and be send to Venus to burn in the rays of the sun. The less-serious cases influence the seriousness of the others and so the hard criminal rides the easy wave.
Mandie 6/11/2009 2:43:26 PM
Open any thesaurus and you will find a wealth of synonyms for "rape". But whether women are ravished, molested, abused, violated, forced or sexually assaulted in a comfortable room after being wined and dined or in a dirty alley with a gun to the head, it remains completely unacceptable. Contrary to your conclusion, I feel that equating date rape and forced marital intercourse with violent criminal rape makes all rape less acceptable. It is because of the "nuances and shading" you suggest that so many women neglect to report rape. By stating that all rapes are not equal, you indicate to rapists that some rapes are more acceptable than others. This is exactly the mindset we need to eliminate. I do not want anyone to get raped to any degree, nor do I need to refer to rape in one of 16 shades.
Earthmother 6/11/2009 2:47:34 PM
Great article as always Lili! How wonderful to find a young woman who thinks about real issues instead of the usual selfish indulgent "because I'm worth it" rubbish that we are confronted with in the media daily. I am astounded at the lack of comprehension shown by letterwriters such as Daniel, Mark, Buffy Stairgrazer and Jaques (religious tirade) but heartened by the comments of Dude, Percival and Piet Strydom to name but a few. Please keep your thought-provoking articles coming Lili. You rock girl!
Earthmother 6/11/2009 2:48:05 PM
Great article as always Lili! How wonderful to find a young woman who thinks about real issues instead of the usual selfish indulgent "because I'm worth it" rubbish that we are confronted with in the media daily. I am astounded at the lack of comprehension shown by letterwriters such as Daniel, Mark, Buffy Stairgrazer and Jaques (religious tirade) but heartened by the comments of Dude, Percival and Piet Strydom to name but a few. Please keep your thought-provoking articles coming Lili. You rock girl!
Bones 6/15/2009 9:29:51 AM
So what happens if a stranger threatens you with a gun, then in your fear, you succumb to anything that he compells you to do. he ends up not even having to use the gun to threaten you anymore. You comply to allhis demands without any resistance because the threat of the gun is enough to make you do anything he wants. If he rapes you in that situation, would you consider that less traumatic than with a guy who beats you about before raping you? I was held hostage for 2 hours in my house and within 10 minutes of my son's life being threatened, I stopped even trying to think of ways to get out. I complied with everything the guy wanted and he never had to threaten me to do anything again after that initial 10 minutes. I was too scared to think about anything other than pleasing him. Do you really think that that was less traumatic for me? Guess what sweetheart, MY pain is more important than anyone else's pain at the time i'm going through it. My reaction to it has notyhing to do with any other horrible situation another person might find themselves in.
Sel 6/17/2009 12:57:17 PM
I agree with Th3MAN - Wake Up Lilli, you may think your words are wise. Get some experience from others before you jump the bandwagon. Poor Article
Sel 6/17/2009 1:06:24 PM
I agree with Th3MAN. Poor article. You may think your words are wise, but its a bunch of rubbish, but I suppose being a columnist we should all just get used to it. Tip, listen to more people's stories before you dive in head first.
Ntombi K 6/17/2009 1:47:25 PM
@Earthmother: I don't think that Jaque was making a tirade. He was simply clarifying the said statement for Angelique since she asked for more opinions about it. I think his point, while not directly related to the article, did reply to another reader. And it wasn't even a hateful - just explanatory. What's your problem, Earthmother?
jeanihess 6/19/2009 10:06:16 AM
1. You are either pregnant or you are not.: like you are dead or you are not. Saying a one day or 5 week fetus is not a baby is a bit like saying that children are not people / human. Not recognising the unborn human as a legal entity is an economic matter akin to the old legislations that men the owners of women and children. 2. Rape is rape whether it is done to a wife by a husband; happens on a date; is perpertrated by a family member, friend or neigbour; is a gang activity or not. Rape is always the expression of physical power over another and always intends to subject the victim to humiliation and control. Rape is not only a direct on women but a statement to other men and to society in general about the power of the rapist and the ineffectuality of other men and society to protect women and to stop the rapist. Rape is one of the 'tools of war' and is used to weaken the national identity of invaded countries by impregnating the women. It is also used by 'straight' men to punish, insult, humiliate and subjucate other men the act intending to send the message that the victim is a lesser being with no rights over body or spirit. Why is it that educated and liberated women so often seek to show how their liberation changed their perspectives from being people that seek justice for all to perpetuating the gender status quo attempting to undo the gains women and children made over recent years?
Cica 6/26/2009 10:00:42 AM
I agree with this article. Well written, and relevant insights. There IS a difference between being violently raped, and engaging in foreplay that ends up in intercourse. I know of 15 yr old girls crying "rape" after being manipulated into having sex with their older male boyfriends - but only AFTER the relationship ends. Different cultures create different words for things that are pertinent ot their culture. The rape culture is so prevalent it's about time new words were created to distinguish the very different degrees of rape that exist.
Mveve 6/28/2009 7:07:59 AM
Lili, I don't think you have ever been raped, walk a mile in someone who has been raped shoes; before writing such drivel.
Armchair 6/28/2009 4:58:25 PM
rKhaep Armchair sightseeing, with links to many famous places and landmarks
Kana 7/1/2009 4:36:15 PM
So, the people criticizing the columnist all agree that the husbands 'persuading' (no force, no threat) their tired wives to have sex can be committing rape? That's wonderful to hear.
Lani 7/15/2009 12:52:52 PM
Strange how worked up you people are getting. It's like she's named you personally. I smell some guilt in these angry posts. Gentlemen, if a lady declines your advances, she really isn't playing coy. Rape is rape,
Eolathin 7/19/2009 8:13:55 PM
You stupid woman, your column lacks everything a good written piece should have. You just shot your mouth of about two very sensitive and contriversial subjects - both of which you obviously have no knowledge or experience of. Empty cans make the most noise, and you, madam, are as empty as they come!
Tess 7/20/2009 9:35:16 AM
Rape in any form "mild" or "severe" is something someone did to someone else who did not want that to happen. If rape is about power rather than sex then it is another way to assault/battery/hurt or show power over others. One could think of rape as a form of robbery ? ?To steal from, especially using force or violence.? The semantics are not important. It leaves immeasurable pain and hurt and tragedy in its aftermath. Once we start inferring levels of rape ? we allow people to bring in their own opinion of whether it is severe or mild. This will not allow debate because perceptions vary. Talk to any rape survivor and let?s just call it rape and make it the worst or lowest form of transgression one can be accused of. We must make sure people know exactly what rape constitutes. There should be no doubt that what you are doing while controlling/coercing/forcing/warring/curing someone?s lifestyle; this is rape and that makes you the worst criminal in the history of man.
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