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What's God got to do with it?

Dorothy Black is perplexed by the religious and moralising folk who condemn premarital sex, homosexuality, transgenderism and so on...

One of the not-so-great aspects of writing a column about sex is the slew of comments from the religious and moralising who are quick to call me a whore and/or damn my eternal soul to hell.

The assumption is that, as I write openly about sex, I am naturally a morally bankrupt person 'unable to keep my legs together', spreading the word of sin and disease across the country.

What an odd conclusion to draw.

Sometimes these responses are amusing to me, sometimes they're dull, but they almost always inspire the same niggling question: What's God got to do with it?

Too much still it seems.

From Islam to Christianity nothing has done more to vilify the human body and its natural impulses than religion. Even Buddhist monks (and only men can become monks) treat female sexuality as an obstacle to spiritual enlightenment.

No other single social construct has done more to subjugate women and objectify their sex.

Even when sexuality is embraced within the religious lifestyle, everything outside the textbook 'norm' becomes deviant and therefore wrong – sex out of wedlock, homosexuality, transgenderism and so on. Even masturbation is somehow an abomination and against the natural order of things.

Entire generations of children have been subjected to these twisted notions about a function that is as fundamental to our natures as eating.

Entire generations of children have become adults burdened with the uncomfortable notion that their unmentionables are shameful places and their desires, sexual orientation and fantasies unacceptable at best and sinful and unclean at worst.

All because of a belief that there is some unseen, voyeuristic deity in the sky scrutinising what we do with our sex organs and judging us for our humanity.

Even before we are able to discern for ourselves, we are made to understand that our genitals are somehow 'different' to the rest of us.

While noses are noses and legs are legs, penises are pee pees, winkies, toties, thingies, tottermannetjies and toelies, while vaginas are cookies, wee wees, flowers, fannies and feefees. Or they're not mentioned at all. And if we’re 'caught' masturbating, we're told our fingers or legs will fall off.

How truly bizarre.

Why is it that shame is more morally acceptable than pleasure? That abstinence and denial from pleasure are lauded as virtues?

One would think we're still firmly stuck in the Dark Ages, fearing a wrathful God and incapable of taking responsibility for our actions while blaming our misadventures on the weakness of evil flesh and the devil. Or TV and porn.

It would seem that for many, life remains polarized between infantile notions of 'bad' sex behaviour and 'good' sex behaviour. Between 'sluts' and 'good girls'. Between the Madonna and the whore. The dirty and the divine.

Maybe that's a turn-on for some. In which case, I'm all for it. For myself, I like to think of life, love and sex as being more nuanced than that.

(Also, I guess, if there's going to be a third party in bed with my lover and I, I would prefer it not be guilt or God. It's a personal preference really that's served me quite well so far.)

As for those who insist on venting their spleen in a gush of sanctimonious godliness, I'm sure those feelings might be better served on topics like murder, rape, death and war.

You know, the really bad stuff that actually causes people pain.

Have you been taught that sex is dirty? Share your comments and opinions in the box below.

- Women24

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Arno 3/18/2009 10:29:31 AM
Having sex when you want it how you want with whom you want it is a fairly selfish endeavour, and it is this perpetuated self obsession that stealthily positions us to engage in war etc. the really bad stuff.. I'm all for sex(drop me a line, you to Meagan!), but the greater good dictates that we think beyond 8 inches. And I think that is what morality tries to embody.
Anon 3/18/2009 10:31:54 AM
As a muslim you should know that Islam does not look at sex as something disgraceful. The quraan talks in detail about sex. The teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace on him) even tell muslim men it is very important that they make sure their wife is satisfied during sex. If not you have committed a serious sin. Find me another religion that talks about the importance of staisfying your woman. Islam covers things like what positions are recommended and which are less recommended but still allowed. I ask you to please learn about Islam before you comment on its teachings. Islam simply forbids sex outside of marriage simply because if a man doesn't have the guts to make a life long commitment to a woman then you have no business getting into her trousers.
Marc 3/18/2009 10:38:09 AM
I agree, many religions have had TOO much to do with our view of sex. But, without that, where would we be now? - bonking in the streets, anytime we feel like it? That would make us animals again, and then how do we learn to control our impulses. After all, that is exactly what makes us 'civilised'. Sex IS a spritual thing, and should be treated that way, ie should be between two people who have love for each other - otherwise, it does get dirty (even though we like that...)
Lili 3/18/2009 10:42:33 AM
Marc, it is absurd to say that religion is stopping us from "bonking in the streets like animals". I am an atheist, but that does not mean I am morally corrupt. I don't need anyone's idea of "God" to teach me right from wrong.
Marc 3/18/2009 10:47:32 AM
Lili, I too am an atheist. But when you grow up in a largely Christian country like SA, religious values will filter through to you. Some good, some bad. Religion doesn't stop me from bonking in the streets, my sense of morality does - but maybe some of that sense comes from religious influences?
CVB 3/18/2009 10:57:10 AM
You're missing the point altogether - the Pagan/Heathen/Real religions don't have this anti-sex guilt-mongering at their core. It's only the monotheistic (Abrahamic) religions that use guilt to manipulate their members, that promote the association of sex with guilt feelings. It's not about any God or Goddess - it's about the MEN in the churches who would have power over all the people in their churches, and who use guilt to achieve their aims. It's about prosperity cultism (christianity being a cult), it's about power, it's about money. And it has NOTHING to do with your soul. Haven't you noticed how these Abrahamic religions sideline/denigrate women, reducing them to mere chattels and servants? Pagans don't even acknowledge, let alone believe in what the christians and their ilk call 'hell' - hell is a purely christian invention to induce (you guessed it!) FEAR in their congregations. So to threaten Pagans with it is really amusing - why should a christian fear-mongering tool induce fear in anybody except a mindless, blindly obedient christian? A true religion celebrates sexuality as the embodiment of 'Godness' - it doesn't portray sexuality and sex as shameful. A true religion embraces both genders as parts of the whole - and doesn't seek to elevate one at the expense of the other. A true religion doesn't apply petty man-made rules to the Gods' creations - to mankind - it respects mankind in all its forms. Yup, looks like you got mixed up between the true Gods and Goddesses of the Old Religions, and the plastic god(s) that were invented to suit the purposes of the Abrahamic religions and their male leaders.
Tshabala Mkwakwa 3/18/2009 11:01:40 AM
Sex is wrong before marriage, you mast have sex with goat like me!!! It is not a sin then
Danny 3/18/2009 11:01:51 AM
I agree, why bring religion into sex when you have natural selection? I have yet to meet a sexy atheist wanting my body in public. Even atheists have common sense. You don't see them shagging their brains out on every street corner now do you? Maybe religion has a problem with everything that's fun.
Frikkie 3/18/2009 11:05:41 AM
Shame I feel sorry for this poor woman who wrote this... Its kind off like reading and hearing the thoughts of a rape victim...Otherwise this lady has caught the cat by the tail, and has never understood, or experienced real love...or maybe she had, but chooses not to get over it. Sex was never made, or classified as "dirty" by God... It's actually a love language for spiritual intimacy and off course pleasure. Its lack of understanding exactly this that leads to the world of today with its high divorce rates, no respect for human life, killing, wars, and all the things she refers to
CTheB 3/18/2009 11:05:44 AM
A round of applause, please. It's one of those niggling questions I've never seen an answer to (I've seen attempts at an answer, but never an answer). Fortunately we're not the only creatures that have sex just for pleasure, dolphins also do. I'm guessing they're all going to hell. Marc, religion is not the ultimate source of morality and is therefore not required for it. If it is, which religion is? Religions like Christianity try to force a particular view of morality through fear and guilt, something which quite easily leads to rebellion against the offered view of morality.
Sam 3/18/2009 11:06:23 AM
Typical blinckered westerner with no respect for others opinions or beliefs. Only You are Right oh Great One....The Day you so called journos can actually be Objective will be the day the West finally has some Moral ground to stand on. Take your opinions to Europe and the US, it is galdly welcomed there, leave us backward Africans to be barbaric
guiltfree 3/18/2009 11:09:46 AM
We love you Dorothy! As a gay guy it has taken me a looong time to seprate the way I see myself from the way "the church" and other pollitical institutions have told us to feel about sex related issues. I am happy to say that I have murdred that little voice with a German accent sticking its ugly head out everytime I need to allow myself to feel pleassure.
guiltfree 3/18/2009 11:10:37 AM
But, unfortunately as a grown up I find it difficult to comply to any type os relationship structure. I think this is due to the fact that we were not tought to live our lives other than the "Holy Religious" way. Unfortunately we still live in a society that feels safer with holism than individualism. Live and let live!
Danger Boy 3/18/2009 11:12:14 AM
Hiya Dorothy... damn good question!! I wouldn't give a toss about all the bible bashers and boring conservatives if I were you... and let's not forget that Christ, a good friend of mine, used to love hanging out at the bars with all the drunks and prostitutes until his father told him to get off his arse and start spreading the word. I think you are great sister, always enjoy your articles...
Trev 3/18/2009 11:15:01 AM
Irrespective of what anyone has to say, the Word of God tells us that sex is an act sacred to two people who have made a promise to Him in marriage and through this have become one is Father's eyes.
titat 3/18/2009 11:16:37 AM
Sam, you TWAT! This is not a news article. It's an OPINION piece
Crimson 3/18/2009 11:16:53 AM
Sam dont get a hernia. This was a very good article. It makes for a good read and allows me to view other opinions on the matter. I might not agree with the article but I like to see some good arguments and clever reasoning behind it. While I am a christian and have certian views on sex I still enjoy the post and believe in "each to their own". I am christian and not married but have sex and am faithfull to one woman. Great read , one of the better ones on news 24. What stops us from bonking in the streets is out intelligence. Think about it. AIDS, ugly people , money <-- yes even money. all these factors contribute to how we decide to portray our sexual nature,
Lee 3/18/2009 11:17:26 AM
Well we live in a world where God hardly features and Christianity isnt taught in schools anymore. No morals or values are taught and people can't distinguish between right and wrong anymore. And look how that's working out for all of us? Children are experimenting with sex and drugs from the age of 10, men and women making babies all over the place, drug-use is rampant (in all communities)! I agree with Marc that the religious influences that we had growing up (whether you now choose to participate in a particular church or not) has instilled a sense of morality in us but unfortunately today's kids haven't had that - and look at the result. I feel so sorry for them, we're sending them out into the world and they're drowning - its like sending someone with a knife to a gunfight. You may think that religion is a waste of time and that's your choice. You are entitled to your lack of beliefs while us Christians and Muslims are entitled to ours. While growing up in a religious home set many boundaries and as teenagers we felt like we were missing out, I am now extremely grateful to my parents for my upbringing! How can you expect people to make the right decision if they dont know wrong from right? Thank God for that "Religious Guilt". Its kept me on the straight and narrow and ensured that I've lived a healthy and happy life!
SSM 3/18/2009 11:17:28 AM
I don't think there's anyone who has the right to judge, but people have a moral duty to speak up on issues of morality. I also do not think that there's anything wrong with sex, but there's everything wrong when people start sleeping around and doing all sorts of inconceivable sexual acts. The key message with regard to sex and religion is self discipline and self-respect (people have to learn to control their own bodies), and not to condemn sex as Dorothy is suggesting. On the contrary sex is a beautiful thing created by God to be enjoyed by those who are married. Contrary to popular belief, noone will die from abstinence but people will die if they continue to sleep around. It's unfortunate Dorothy that you think of God as an "unseen, voyeuristic deity in the sky", because if people listened to Him and did as He says, the murder, rape and wars that you are refering to wouldn't be there.This world would be a better place.
eric 3/18/2009 11:21:34 AM
I always had a good chuckle at the amount girls who lost their virginity on church confirmation camp in their early teens. And my favourite was a girl I dated and she claimed the preists son took her cherry on confirmation camp!!!!
Don 3/18/2009 11:21:51 AM
if you believe that Christianity views sex as dirty then please feel free to quote any passages of scripture from the bible that support your fact. if you cannot then i assume you haven't done your research and are simply ranting about what you have been told about Christianity. And if you try to argue that you are not a christian and therefore do not know any bible scriptures then my point is reinforced....how can you make comments about such a controversial subject without knowing the religion (or religions in this case) with absolute certainty?
meow 3/18/2009 11:24:32 AM
wow, and the discussion turned to which religion is the right or the wrong one again. grrrrr. i agree with anon, arno & marc. i want guilt-free sex, but i will not like my boyfriend bonking every other girl he sees in the street, because it is 'pleasurable & guilt-free'. that is just going from one extreme to another.
Jo 3/18/2009 11:25:46 AM
Brilliantly written. Thanks for a fresh perspective. Morality is not a religious attribute (as its commonly claimed), but rather a humanist one.
sipho 3/18/2009 11:28:32 AM
If God has nothing to do with it, then why ask the question and why bother? Go ahead... Have sex with whomsoever you want, whenever, and as many times as your wish! But if He does, then, play by His standards.
CTheB 3/18/2009 11:30:13 AM
Hahaha, Frikkie, that's some good laugh material. Thanks for that.
Piet Strydom 3/18/2009 11:33:11 AM
Interesting how non-believers always judge religions about what they have heard and seen about the religion, without having taken the trouble to understand the religion in the first place. Me, I am a Christian - so can only talk about that: In the Christian belief system, God made everything, including humans. Having made us, He knows what is best for us. And that is summarised into loving Him with all that you have, and secondly, just as important, love your neighbour as you love yourself. Following from there, there is then guidelines on how to treat your parents, and people in authority (with respect), personal belongings. (treat those of yours and others with respect, be willing to work for it), and your wife, and those of others (Be faithful in a committed relationship, that protects your happiness, her happiness, and those of your children) Unfortunately people are not willing to put in any effort into relationships, and just want to bonk when and where and with own they feel desire for at that stage.
Nelly 3/18/2009 11:36:32 AM
Funny how people have such strong opinions about sex and God and everything else in this world!! Yet most people still don't truly know a single thing about either. I pray for a true AWAKENING TO ALMIGHTY GOD the Creator of the heavens and the earth, for all you people out there Atheists, Muslims etc. If you knew TRUTH, none of you would make such statements! You who say what does sex have to do with God? He is the one who created it!! It has everything to do with God read the BIBLE which means (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) It talks about everything from sex to true love and forgiveness for all and salvation for all nations! Unfortunatley mankind always thinks he knows more and therefore what we sow we will definately reap!!! JESUS CHRIST IS KING!! I pray for myself as well as all the lost that you may truly have an awakening to God our Father, Jesus our Saviour and Holy Spirit our Teacher and Comforter!
Frikkie 3/18/2009 11:45:04 AM
Yeah Nelly!!!! Nailing the nail on the head!
Andy 3/18/2009 11:55:20 AM
Personally, even being a Christian, I don't think God gave us so many nerve endings on a penise or clitoris if He wanted us to be ashamed, see it as sinfull or feel unclean. That and the fact that we have the ability to laugh at ourselves because the moment you take laughter in to the human sexual equation you realise that it is natural, healthy and beautifull. I suppose I'm a liberal Christian but the bigger picture is also why you would care what any one else thinks of your private life. After all- all religion should be bassed upon a personal one-on-one relationship with your God/ Belief system first. Leave the critics to themselves & enjoy life!
deon 3/18/2009 12:01:06 PM
Dorothy, God created sex , how can it be bad ? God condems immorality, understand the difference and you will see the light.
Anonymous 3/18/2009 12:02:09 PM
So much of what is written in religious texts was dictated by man and inspired by God (or the gods...) Who are the relgious institutions actually to say what is right or wrong, there is no such thing. Religion has created fear. As Friedrich Nietzsche said: "Fear is the mother of Morality." Do what you want as long as no-one in harmed. Albert Einstein said: "Morality is of the highest imortance-but for us, not for God."
eric 3/18/2009 12:05:22 PM
I am amazed at all you high and mighty religous types making your comments on the women24 Love and Sex page! Do you visit this sight weekly for your tips on pubic shaving, gay love tips, position of the week, karma sutra, first time anal etc......Be careful, your god is watching the filth you read!
Ian 3/18/2009 12:07:30 PM
God has everything to do with it. He created us to reproduce, He also created man to enjoy making love. But man has gone and twisted it into something disgusting, and abusing something spiritual into something only for self. 1 Corinthians 6:9-20 Luk 17:26 Mat 15:19
Danger Boy 3/18/2009 12:07:49 PM
Dorothy... also just wanted to say that when I mentioned "dirty" in my response to your cunnilingus article... I was talking about the etiquette of personal hygiene when having multiple partners... I hope you didn't misunderstand what I was trying to say. :)
Gerhard 3/18/2009 12:16:42 PM
Dorothy, God created us to love and be intimate, but within a framework of Character and holiness. Marriage is about two people giving up EVERYTHING, and then becoming a unified something else. Marriage is how God teaches us HOW to love him. In marriage intimacy and yes, SEX is the ultimate experience...there is nothing like it outside this unique arrangement, and can only be terminated by death itself.
Ollie 3/18/2009 12:16:59 PM
Ag sies tog Frikkie... To the author, brilliant article. Having grown up in a mainly afrikaans society, that is DEFINATELY one thing we're doing differently in the raising of our son. As an athiest, I have also yet to be caught in the streets with my pants down. It is usually the oompies with the bible under the arm who is actually the one pinching the cat in the dark, anyways. IAN, and whoever shares his ideas - please, please please realise that all of us do NOT live our lives according to a book that tells of people walking on water. I will leave you be to believe in whatever you wish, but please don't tell me that my homosexuality is gonna make me burn in a hot place after I'm dead. I simply don't believe in the same things you do, and no amount of scriptures you can read me will change that. To the author - good luck. You're gonna get a few bibles bashers gooing the book at you.
Nelly 3/18/2009 12:23:41 PM
John 15:18-21 ?If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me." Therefore (Philip 4:4 REJOICE IN THE LORD ALWAYS & AGAIN I SAY REJOICE) I will still pray for you unbeleivers who choose to mock and persecute for GOD IS MIGHTY AND WORTHY TO BE PRAISED!!
MS Hartter 3/18/2009 12:24:34 PM
Marriage has the powerful potential of bringing AIDS and other STD's under control. It would almost be the same as putting a person in quarantine if he/she had a virus that threatens society, The two in marraige would be in quarantine until "death do us part" and the virus would not be passed on to others. Promiscuity has the potential to continue the spread of this very dangerous virus. It is about others and not only about me as we happen to ive in a shared world. Marriage is Gods wise solution to illigitimate children, divorce, abortion and all the pain and unhappiness that goes along with promiscuity. Marriage is the ultimate joy of all human relationships as it teaches us the skill of loving and caring for someone other than yourself. You can have all the wealth and pleasure you like but loneliness is probably the worst of all the other pain that is so evident around us. Marriage is Gods solution to loneliness. Good marriages produce well adjusted children who go on to produce a well adjusted society. Marriage is Gods solution to a healthy nation. Religion has got nothing to do with it. It is about approaching life with common sense. MS Hartter.
UNIMPRESSED 3/18/2009 12:31:43 PM
i just want to sidestep the issue a little here so that i can tell this idiot Tshabala Mkwakwa that beastiality is a sin. look it up in the bible and stop blowing hot air though that hole in your face. and this is besides the fact that it is being cruel to animals, you beast.
Charlie 3/18/2009 12:35:03 PM
Sobering thoughts. I thoroughly enjoyed the article. Thank you.
Cupid 3/18/2009 12:51:23 PM
I read the following on another blog the other day, "Every issue have three sides my side , your side and the way it happened/should happen." I guess we all apply filters and bend facts to suit our cause, in other words freedom of speech. If you put your cause out there on a blog, you probably should be susceptible to criticism most of all and it's a good idea to accept that your version of the truth might be further from reality that someone else's. On that note, the author seems to have a lot of rhetorical questions - do you really want an answer or are you filters set? I agree with Arno, he put it quite clear & simple. I think the author might be mistaken about the 'real pain' part - in the event of STD's I believe there is a fair amount of physical pain involved. And then the state of one's mental & emotional well-being is affected in a dire way in the case of unplanned pregnancies and botched relationships, especially when sex is involved. Another thing about blogging is that extensive research is not a prerequisite for posting an article (for that matter it does not seem the case in many magazines as well these days!) so very many times it portrays a persons' perceptions and assumptions rather than facts. Where are your facts from Ms Author? (rhetorical question) Peace ou peeps.
Dolly 3/18/2009 12:54:34 PM
Christianity does not view sex as dirty.In fact it has a whole book dedicated to sexuality (Songs of Solomon), So i dont' know what the issue is.I agree with Arno that greater good dictates,we cannot just have sex with whoever we please because it hurts others and sex is meant to be an expression of love.
Sophia 3/18/2009 12:56:25 PM
Some of the people who replied to your article are proving your point but religious people rarely see what is right in front of them. All I can say is, you go Dorothy!
david 3/18/2009 1:01:55 PM
I agree with Frikkie. People who say that God says sex is dirty definately dont have their facts correct. We clearly live in an immoral world which nobody can dispute ie rape, child pornography, sexual immorality, teenage pregnancies where a huge number of abortions are happening. basically what im getting at is sex is a beautiful spiritual thing which is taken very lighly by people hence all this above which is happening
Frikkie 3/18/2009 1:02:49 PM
I would just like to add a note for all the redneck atheists out there. You are right when you say religion has pumped fear into people about issues like this. Just note that it?s not God who initiated that fear, it was and still is the devil. Unfortunately the devil also goes to church.
TyppicalSA 3/18/2009 1:16:42 PM
one word... AIDS
Anna 3/18/2009 1:22:00 PM
Dorothy Black and the rest of all you Atheists. You make me SICK! Its you Atheists that are breeding sicko's like yourselves. When we had religion in schools and discipline which by the way equates back to the Bible and the ten commandments we didn't have the like of you and others and if there were then, clearly there was a lack of God in the home.
themba gamede dube 3/18/2009 1:31:08 PM
what a great article
Werner 3/18/2009 1:42:32 PM
"All because of a belief that there is some unseen, voyeuristic deity in the sky ...." If you can't say anything good about God, rather don't say anything. Sex is a beautiful & intimate part inside a marriage. Your loose morals & lack of respect towards religion disgust me.
Audz 3/18/2009 1:45:08 PM
Tsabala you are in big trouble actually you need help please read Levictus 18 vs 23 it is a sin to have sex with an animal. Sex is not "sin "or "dirty" but depending when you doing it with whom. Its like fire in a fire place, its SAFE but if you take fire out of its place its become DANGEROUS. God designed it for married people as He is saying two shall become one flesh in Genesis 2:23 please read the BIBLE (its a human manual).Thanks Audz
jenny 3/18/2009 1:51:33 PM
You poor thing - imagine going through life without a moral compass.!! You know -that feeling of self-value and self-respect. Yes, I am talking about liking yourself and the defiance in your article shows that you clearly do not!. Those feelings of self worth rate somewhat above sharing body fluids with some anonymous male and fumbling in the dark. You know - that feeling when you know what you are a slutty amoral alley cat. Sure if that is what gets your rocks off, live with it. It has nothing to with religion, it about respecting yourself and your partner and love cannot exist without this moral framework. You are fooling yourself!
The Snark 3/18/2009 1:51:54 PM
"Between 'sluts' and 'good girls'. Between the Madonna and the whore." - sorry, i thought Madonna WAS the whore? Also, can someone tell me why "bonking in the streets like animals" would be a bad thing? Also, which streets do these people hang out on? Don't you guys have animal control?
Jasmine 3/18/2009 1:53:58 PM
Sex, religion and morality all in one go! Talk about a mouthful. I am neither an atheist or a believer. Sex like religion or culture is seen differently by different people. At what point did we feel it appropriate to comment on people's sex life, lack thereof or confines? Surely, there ought to be a boundaries. You may feel that something is inappropriate (or wrong or immoral) but when did we get to the point where we imposed our morality on other people? You may not like it or approve of it, you can even judge it but don't condemn people because they don't share the same views on sex and sexuality as you, that is just arrogant.
Yol 3/18/2009 2:06:21 PM
I don't think the author of this article has done any research into religion at all. Nowhere in the Bible does it make you feel guilty for sex. It does caution that it should be something that a husband and wife share and even recommends that sex between a husband and wife should happen as often as possible. As for the question :"What does God have to do with it?" the answer is EVERYTHING. Your body is HIS creation. Your soul is at its best when given to HIM. During sex the souls and bodies intertwine, so off course its good to have God nurturing that unification. It is unfortunate that some people cannot possibly believe in something they cannot see and will therefore never agree with me here, but just because you turn a blind eye to something, does not mean it isn't invalid.
Dannie 3/18/2009 2:20:17 PM
Dora.... I am just wondering if its maybe a fetish to you, to write articals that stir like this?????
Wkup 3/18/2009 2:21:02 PM
Its funny listening to everyone climb into religion here...Obviously these are people with lack of facts and a string of bad experiences. Christianity is not as is portrayed in any of the responses. Maybe, read a bible, pray and go to church a few times. THEN you can come and tell us about it. People who know the least ALWAYS have the most to say!! Sex is Sex is Sex dont blame God for your lack of control or lack of sex.
Danzo 3/18/2009 2:23:11 PM
In the beginning, sex was introduced by the serpent, the incarnated devil himself, I am glad there won't be sex in heaven, may those going to hell will find it, christianity is a reality, get used to it. I believe God and no one will ever change my mind about it.
Leigh 3/18/2009 2:25:16 PM
Hahaha Danzo! You bloody weirdo! How do you know there won't be sex in heaven. Haha! The Serpent. Oh you crazy types really make my day.
Dannie 3/18/2009 2:35:56 PM
Hahahaha Leigh!!! you dumbass!!! Danzo actually put 1 and 1 together. Your body wont go to heaven... hence no sex, plus any one who has read a few pages of the bible knows heaven is going to be much greater than having sex.... You unbelievers really make my day.... lol
Jess 3/18/2009 2:45:17 PM
Hahahaha Dannie! Go f*ck yourself! You bible thumping imaginary-friend loving, burn-in-hell-believing churchbaboons sure make my day!
Me 3/18/2009 2:47:50 PM
Christiantiy does not force anything by fear or guilt. Many people do, however, use those "tools" to achieve their own objectives. Torah (not Christianity!) does teach that immoral living and sexul depravity is wrong, which even the "atheists" believe. So they have at least learned something from religion. To say it uses guilt and fear then also means that your children obey your rules because of guilt and fear? I don't think so. You have made the rules for their own good, and that's why we obey God's rules. Because we kno they are good for us as mankind. Don't blame God for those people who twist things to suit themselves. And, by the way, atheists, if there is no God or Creator, where did you and every other marvellous creation come from? And don't be STUPID enough to quote the most unscientific theory called "evolution" as explaining it. It doesn't and can't and even if common sense does not prov it to you, a little bit of real scientific and biological investigation will show you the tremendous holes in this "theory". Believe what you want, but one day, when you die, and that will happen no matter what you believe, you will find out the real truth. Too late, perhaps? I already know the truth follow the Torah, and am happy, confident, relaxed and... even enjoy sex without feeling guilty!
Seboni 3/18/2009 2:50:59 PM
I'm Christian & I'll speak for Christianity only. Sex was created by God, when the Bible speaks of people having children just after creation it explicitly mentions that they had sex and a baby was born. It also mentions that young people who feel that they want to have sex they should marry and have sex. As a Christian, I was never taught that sex is dirty.
MACK 3/18/2009 3:11:43 PM
We were not told sex was wrong or dirty ,not at home anyway , but at school ,church and over at sannies house ,yes ,we were.Fools ! We were told to excercise constraint ,wait as long as you could , see girls ,as your sisters and how would you like it if anybody just banged her.I blame our mommy's in large - boys will be boys ,they say , but girls will be sluts .How very wrong and unfair ! Teach children about emotions ,by acting adult ,and they will wait for the right person , at the right time ! you dont drive a car for the first time , when you go for your driving test.I wish people would ask God in prayer ,and not pretend to be GOD in judgement.I married a virgin ,she didnt ,we have a great life ,somebody had to teach me !I would rather suggest you masturbate , than just go out there and bang somebody.And on the subject of gay and lesbian people ,who would willingly choose this ,knowing the hardships these poor people suffer.They are born like it ,like I have brown eyes , I can wear blue contacts , but eyes will stay brown - LIVE AND LET LIVE !
NTBARIE 3/18/2009 3:16:02 PM
@ Anon 18 Mar at 10:31 ...couldn't have said it better myself!!!
Tshabala Mkwakwa 3/18/2009 3:16:27 PM
Hau , Auds and Unimpressed , what if I were a kondom, I luv my goat. You two are both dumb A$$ES, wheres a guy going to seriously exploit his love for a goat on the website, get a clue. It was a joke to lighten up the matter. And to everyone here, doesnt the Bible also say "DONT JUDGE" and "ALL SINS ARE EQUAL" . just a thought.
Jon 3/18/2009 3:24:49 PM
I think religion was initially formed to educate people on the best way to live after learning from mistakes in the past. Can lead to broken hearts, unmentionable diseases and, probably most importantly at biblical times, unwanted children. Birth control and condoms can solve the unwanted children and disease issues and wariness the broken hearts issue. We have, in effect, solved the problems that haunted our forefathers and the laws passed down from them may no longer be necessary
Crimson 3/18/2009 3:25:20 PM
Eric, I believe that if you see a heading "What's God got to do with it?" on the cover of News24 , you as a Christian have the right to go and defend your God.
Sanette 3/18/2009 3:28:10 PM
CtheB...there must be something wrong with your brain...to compare a human to a dolphin...It's the lack of having something intelligent to add to this discussion...I feel so sorry for you, Dorothy...to have so many men that you cannot even remember them? To be like an animal...baboons, especially...they do it whenever, wherever they want to...no moral guide whatsoever... that's you! Don't question the presence or absence of God in you life...you are to blame for the filth that you gathered through your life...I wonder if you have a daughter and if you have, what do you teach her....come on baby...get old enough so that you can open your legs for anything that has a penis...shame...I really feel for you. It is people like you that is a disgrace to humanity.
Johan 3/18/2009 3:33:10 PM
The Christian view is not that sex is dirty or shameful. The measure of what is right or wrong is also not whether it harms someone or not. There are many reasons why certain sexual ideas should be avoided, all for your own good. You are welcome to do what you like - that is the origin of sin, to see yourself as the god of your own destiny. All the so-called "sexual freedom" comes from that self-important view. I challenge you to read Songs of Solomon to see what the bible thinks about sex. The laws are also valuable to read in spite of rejection. God still exists whether you believe it or not...
Tania Tavares 3/18/2009 3:35:48 PM
This topic is mainly based on opinion, a lot of the answers I have just read are directly adressed to the previous writer, we all have our own opinions and to this topic I agree that religion has had an enormous effect on the way we view sex. We have been brought up especially in the Catholic community that sex is wrong before marriage but then again many people get married and get divorced because they don't have a sexual bond. In the world of today it is all by trial and error and although many of the times sticking to your morals is the best way to go about it but looking at it in that perspective you have a choice you can make.
Richard 3/18/2009 4:00:43 PM
To the Atheists: You can't argue with a fool, you will only bring yourself down to their level. -sigh- and I?m about to take that plunge in the abyss right now, so here goes: To the blind religious Fanatics: Stop shoving your twisted view of that stupid book on all of us. I respect you have your beliefs but stop forcing it down my throat. To that moron creationist who dissed the theory of evolution. It is exactly what it says it is... a theory, but has its roots based on tangible observations - I can see the progression of life from evidence of fossils etc... I can't see God! Science isn?t perfect, it never is, if it was we would be perfect beings living perfect lives without disease etc, but as we go along we learn and progress. Religion really is what takes us backwards!
Amber 3/18/2009 4:16:25 PM
I will admit that I'm a God-fearing person. But I'm a bit confused. We can't always believe what the Bible says. As hard to believe as it is, the Bible has been translated many, many times. And being the humans that we are, you don't like something, you simply take it out. (If someone has any proof that would convince me otherwise, I'm open for discussion) I've always wondered about this. Especially the sex before marriage thing. I'm also a firm believer of reserving sex for love, and not having sex with multiple partners. My question is; what difference does a piece of paper make? My fiance and I have been together for 8 years. Who are you to say that just because we can't afford the wedding of our dreams (yet) that we aren't allowed to make love (which is more appropriate). when does religion see you as a married couple? When the law says so? I don't discriminate against anyone, and I do consider myself a Christian. So I'm kinda in the middle here. Please would someone clear things up for me? (Great article by the way. Very relevant!)
Andrew 3/18/2009 4:23:47 PM
Based on the comments I've read so far from you Christians it is clear that you do not read the Bible. Christian teaching is considered immoral and barbaric in today's society and anyone living by its philosophy is considered primitive. Read the book of Leviticus if you want to find out what you are defending. Great article.
Fred 3/18/2009 4:26:27 PM
Faith is an excuse for lack of evidence. You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. The human sex drive has evolved from being just a means of procreation, to a pleasurable act within a loving relationship - mother, father, offspring, caring. Your god is not the only one. Your belief system is not the only one. Your "marriage" is not the only way of doing it. You keep believing, I'll keep evolving.
Eddy 3/18/2009 10:32:19 PM
CVB has summed it up accurately.
Frans 3/19/2009 7:01:13 AM
True Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal covenant relationship with your creator, Jesus Christ, the Great I AM. He ordained marriage as a covenant between a man and a woman and true deep sexual pleasure can only stem from this relationship free from guilt, which relationship is also a picture of the bridegroom,Christ, coming at the end of time for his bride, the church, people born anew from the seed of his Word and Spirit when you believe in and on Him..
Jonno 3/19/2009 7:32:38 AM
Where do atheist?s moral values originate from if not from religion? Is morality a mere instinct, do you just know what?s right and wrong, or do you need guidelines from outside your being? Who judges morality? Are my moral values necessarily better or worse than yours? Because I think that enjoying sex only within the confines of a very serious relationship does that mean my morals are better or worse than someone who thinks it?s morally passable to have sex with a sheep? Society judges morality and we can debate this forever with no result. Let?s hold a referendum see?
Gazza 3/19/2009 7:49:40 AM
why is it that whenever sex is mentioned, we have those who go straight to Christianity and what people have taught them undert hat banner? And most of the time, those who jump to Christianity and criticism of it are wrong. A few points to ponder ... the bible is clear that God is not into religion! Strange thought? Check it out for yourself. Secodnly, the bible is clear that God created the idea of sex, he put man and woman in the garden and gave them sex, the ultimate expression of intimacy, for their enjoyment and for procreation. However, as the article rightly points out, there are certain parameters. It is like playing any sport. The sport is enjoyed best within the rules of the sport. Outside of that, there is only chaos. God says that sex is to be for a man and a woman within the bounds of marriage. Anything outside of that is no good. And it is in this kind of relationship that sex is best enjoyed. Just thought i would mention it.
ED 3/19/2009 8:13:52 AM
God has everything to do with our lives, if you let him. It is your choice if you don't want to know God. I can tell you one thing - you don't know what you're missing. That being said, myself and my fellow Christians shouldn't judge you - we must leave that to God. It's wrong of Christians to judge. So, my message - let her be guys. She makes her own choices in life.
Malcolm Stanier 3/19/2009 8:17:16 AM
"He also once told her he did not approve her having sex with other men, but fantasised about seeing ten black mine workers having sex with her while he watched. " "Prinsloo used to bring over prostitutes for group sex, she testified. " Not Normal behaviour and certainally affects people just as much as murder. I find it offensive that "GOD" is blamed for peoples interpretation. The guidlines were given and it's up to the individual to choose his path.
Lewis 3/19/2009 8:31:29 AM
Once you start worshipping the god of SEX then you have totally missed the point completely. Look at the bigger picture, sex is not only about attaining pleasure but to be in a spiritual and physical union, once you have sex without this union you are taking away the value attached to sex, in that you allow yourself to be an object of personal "self-centered" gratification rather than fulfilling spiritual and physical connection. Once you take away the value of sex in your life you'll use sex in your marriage as means of satisfying your lust. Dorothy, to have SEX is to be spiritually and physically connected, if you can't achieve that don't even bother because you are reducing the value of SEX (meaning that you are withdrawing from your SEX bank account instead of depositing)
Henriette 3/19/2009 8:48:32 AM
I find it fascinating that people can think religion teaches morality when such a large percentage of prisoners confesses to having a religion of some sort. Or just consider the number of boys that have been molested by priests.
tom 3/19/2009 8:48:46 AM
you go girl
Sharon 3/19/2009 9:05:37 AM
Dorothy and all the others that are bashing Christianity ... I am a Christian and have never felt dirty about sex or my body. Any religion is a guideline of what how we should live, however as human beings we are (I would like to think) blessed with the intelligence to be able to to differentiate between right and wrong. People's moral values come from the way they were raised by their parents, influences around them eg. teachers, community etc. STOP BASHING RELIGION to justify your way of live ... quite frankly God loves us all because of who God is, not because of anything we did or didn't do ... even if it is 'dirty' and who cares what society thinks anyway ... We all have to live this life to best of our abilities and what happens at the end of it, is between you and your God anyway !!
T 3/19/2009 1:28:12 PM
Interesting point of view, however, you clearly have not experienced God like I have. It's the weirdest thing, but all things porn or explicit related were just unwatchable after accepting Him (when I loved it before), I cannot explain it but it just made me feel ill (reiterate that I enjoyed watching it prior to) No one had to forbid it, I just knew inside. Please do explain that!!
Kate 3/19/2009 3:26:26 PM
CVB that was wonderfully written - could have not said it better myself. Light and dark, male and female are both needed to create a balance... and women are too often labeled sluts/whores for embracing their sexuality.. now I'm not suggesting women go and sleep around, but having a choice and voice in their own sex lives is vital. Frikkie - I do not understand your comment.. what does she say that makes her sound like a rape victim? Have you even had a conversation with one?
chris 3/21/2009 12:48:05 AM
religion is not the ultimate source of morality, and in fact it is a source of profound immorality. only religion can devalue human life to the extent that opression and murder can be justified as gods will. if we agree that morality has anything to do with human happiness and the sanctity of human life, then religion is a very poor guide indeed.
dasein 3/21/2009 4:28:41 PM
Dorothy, I am proud of you for writing that. More people in SA need to see beyond good and evil. 2 thirds of my life were stained by some form of Christian guilt and during those days I would've judged you too for what you wrote. But eventually a mixture of nature and logical common sense served as the antidote and I am happy to be free from all that psychological baggage. I believe that your article is helpful to people going through that transition and also to all the hardliners even though they don't know it yet. x
Muslim 4/14/2009 12:58:20 PM
I have been in a long and committed relationship after both my partner have walked the fire of painfull divorces.We are both committed,practicing muslims that are not married and have great ,decadent sex all year round!.We pray,we fast,we raise well rounded highly intellegent children and we have sex outside marriage!We are happy and hugely satisfied,15yrs on.So don't let taboo's become stumbling blocks.
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