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Lobola is sexist

Paying lobola is much like paying for a long-term prostitute, writes Kazeka Mashologu kaKuse...

Some aspects of lobola are downright sexist. Before screaming that the modern black woman has lost her "blackness" or "Africaness," or has embraced too much of Euro-centric feminism, take a moment to ponder that the financial aspect of lobola borders on long-term prostitution clothed as "ukwakha ubuhlobo" (building friendship).

When one observes the practice of lobola more closely, the differences between this practice and prostitution are few, indeed. The groom to be is begging for the bride to be to be his and his family's possession.

In essence, he pays once for her sexual favours for the rest of his life, to bear children who will have his name, thereby ensuring his immortality, to change her name to his, and to be the family's maid in the name of "umendo" (a practice where the wife is apprenticed in the domestic cooking and cleaning of her new family.) In truth, the woman becomes his possession, to have her serve him – the agenda behind all patriarchal discourse.

In many cases her previous life, to a very large extent, ceases to exist in order to be valuable in the marriage market. The only difference between this practice and prostitution is that the bride has only one client, her husband, whilst the prostitute has various clients. And if one compares the bride's price and the prostitute's, it's safe to conclude that the bride is the lowest paid prostitute in humanity.

The prostitute gets paid every time she grants a sexual favour to the male, whilst the wife is only paid once. The major difference is that society clothes the wife with societal privileges of dignity and only scorn for the prostitute.

"It's not about money, it's about building friendships," the direct and indirect cultural activists will proclaim. Why then is ikhazi (the bride price) such an important aspect of lobola? Why are women not directly part of the negotiation process? Why have many loving couples never exchanged wedding vows because the groom and his family felt the lobola price is too high? Why is it the men's responsibility to finance ikhazi?

In truth, men are building friendships with other men and using the bride as a medium of exchange. If the above observation were not true, women, who have mostly raised the bride and the groom to be, would be a vital part of the negotiations.

The cultural activist will be the very first to point out that women are included in a different manner, forgetting to mention they are only included in the sidelines. The power that men claim women have in the lobola negotiations and other cultural practices is indeed a false sense of power. It is unofficial and is never relegated to decision-making, just the responsibility to be the custodians of patriarchal decisions.

When humans build friendships with one another, financial transactions are not an imperative, yet lobola insists on a financial transaction. This practice is just another avenue to perpetuate the myth that a man must be the ATM bank of the family clothed as provision or headship. This explains why the culturally conscious would never approve of a woman paying lobola for a man – it would mean a loss of power.

The reason that men are encouraged to pay lobola proves that he’ll be a good financial provider does not suffice any longer. Many men who have paid lobola have proven to be irresponsible with no sense of equality between husband and wife and void of family values. Single mothers, divorce rate substantiates the above argument. She must find her security or indebted to mail guardianship.

It is true one marries into a family, thus very important for the families to meet and build friendship. However, the financial transaction of lobola clouds the important friendship aspect of it. Instead it turns the whole cultural practice into an indirect lifetime prostitution transaction.

The cultural argument that women are forgetting their roots when they question sexist dynamics of cultural practices such as the financial aspect of lobola is false. The claim that low self-esteem and hatred are at the root of being critical of the "utopic" image that cultural activists proclaim of indigenous culture is misleading. Culture, before colonisation and western civilisation has its faults that need to be interrogated.

If culture is dynamic and changing as the culturally conscious claim it to be, this change should not stop at gender. It becomes plausible that the sexist aspects of lobola need space to be redefined to meet the present context of gender equality in all spheres of power including cultural practices such as lobola.

Kazeka Mashologu kaKuse is a freelance writer based in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. This article is part of the Gender Links Opinion and Commentary Service.

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motshegwa 6/23/2009 2:54:59 PM
Im not sure where you get your facts from.But please do us a huge favour next time: DO SOME THOROUGH RESEARCH!! How dare you compare the lobola practice with prostitution! Are you implying: all married woman for whom lobola has been paid for are prostitutes?..that the elders who gets involved in the lobola negotiations are pimps? It will be interesting also to know your gender...just to know from which prespective/angle you're viewing your argument. If you're a woman..maybe o le fetwa!!
z 6/23/2009 5:12:38 PM
this is such a ridiculos comparison. i think that you have missed the point of ilobola completely, in an effeort to sound like an extreme feminist. very dissapointing and weak arguments.
ManiQ 6/24/2009 9:15:49 AM
people should research before writing articles, all this crap that you wrote doesn't make sense, how dare you compare lobola to prostitution or it is that you are angry because you cannot afford it or there is no one willing to pay it for you?
he paid 6/24/2009 9:22:19 AM
sister, i think you have lost it. My husband paid lobola and i don't see myself as a prostitute. He cookks, we do laundry together, we both work and have a lovely daughter. I agree with Motshegwa, you need to do some reserch so you can understand the history behind lobola. This is about two people who LOVE each other and bringing their two families together. Peositution...well, where is love in that?
jobe 6/24/2009 9:28:24 AM
this is ridiculous, how can you really compare lobola to prostitution. I think if you dont have anything to write about just dont write. I personal hate people who want to get read of our culture. Try writing about your personal experiences and please dont write about something you dont know.
PROUD MAKOTI 6/24/2009 9:37:26 AM
SHAME ON YOU, Kazeka!!!. If you are a sister, please do not let your bitterness undermine our beautiful culture. If you choose not to honour your culture that is fine, but please refrain from calling us prostitutes.
Angel 6/24/2009 9:40:20 AM
Where do you come from to question such an important african tradition. Kazeka are you South african, I doubt it, the name seems foreign to me. Indian cultures practice the payment of dowry by women. Does that mean the indian women are paying for services of a lifetime gigolo. Crazy totally crazy, I get so angry when our black nation questions our values and cultures for modern or white ideologies.
Lebo 6/24/2009 9:41:52 AM
its really dissapointing to be reading such an article especialy written by an african,what kind of research did you do ?
Wasfi Hendricks 6/24/2009 9:42:24 AM
Woman you got it so wrong - Lobola/dowery is a gift to the woman. Since marraige is sacred, the paying of the lobola/dowery indicates the seriousness of his intention for marriage. He still has to support her and their children with regard to food, clothing and shelter. A prostitute has sex for money that is her job. Lobola/dowery is a token (not a fee) of a mans love for his partner.
bongi 6/24/2009 9:47:51 AM
This article is worrying....people must learn to educate themselves about our history and culture before writing such articles. This is ridiculous!!Please embrace our history and be proud of our culture.
MAN 6/24/2009 9:53:19 AM
This is a stupid article. There are two extremes, as you put it - "Culture, before colonisation and western civilisation". In western civilisation, the groom-to-be is required to buy an engagement ring and an expensive wedding ring. The jewellery bands can, and in most cases, amount to the amount that one pays for lobola. So I guess you'd also eb stupid enough to call western culture prostitution. Any middle ground is "lefetwa" like yourself. You moron!!
YES 6/24/2009 9:54:29 AM
I agree with you Kazeka. This patriarchy has gone on too long! You go girl. Why can't a woman buy a man with lobola? If it wasn't sexist, then women would be able to do that.
whitey 6/24/2009 9:56:26 AM
Hectic. If the lobola/dowry is a token of love then why do some couples never get married because of the high price? And here I thought love can't be bought.
Oom Koosie 6/24/2009 9:57:22 AM
Meh, it's the same across all cultures. In the end the man WILL pay dearly somehow.
Vortex 6/24/2009 9:57:46 AM
Salute to Kazeka for having the courage to stand up to the patriarchy in who's interests it is to have women feel powerless. Powerless to say no, powerless to leave abusive relationships because they were bought and paid for. Women will be respected when men stop treating them as commodities and possessions. Read other women's opinions on the world we live in http://feministcarnival.blogspot.com/
Angela 6/24/2009 10:02:02 AM
THe big question that I have about lobola is what happens when a couple gets divorced? Is there a refund? What happens - in times of old and in some cultures, if the wife died the family had to "replace" her with a younger sibling, so what happens now with the modern day divorce?
Buyi 6/24/2009 10:06:07 AM
kazeka, wrong angle my dear, let me advise you if you want to interrogate the lobola culture take it from the angle of financial payments vs the cattle that were driven by the bride family to build the relations between the two families, this shows you know nothing about our culture that we are so proud of and love. there is nothing feminist about your article but everything uninformed, dont be bitter if you cannot afford lobola or no one wants to pay it for you, for the latter you should just wonder why, the answer is in the article.
Lee 6/24/2009 10:10:47 AM
I feel sad when black people look down at their culture like Kuzeka. Just go to your elders and ask why lobola is paid because it looks like you come from Mars as you did'n do your reseach or ask your elders. I wonder what editors do to allow such a stupid article.
moz 6/24/2009 10:11:23 AM
Brilliant and insightful article, it is good to see a rational not emotional look at the subject. Although it be taken even further, it?s not just lobola, but also the culture of men paying for drinks, dinner, etc, by doing this they are indirectly paying for sex.
Tgal 6/24/2009 10:17:34 AM
You article is too long and on top of that I think you are writing on a subject that you know little about it. People are not as bad a you paint them to be. The in-laws are not out to make money out of their daughters, and if you understand where you partner comes from, in most cases you will find that girls can talk to their families and would agree on the max limit they can ask for during lobola negotiations, I would fight for my partner and talk to my family before they even come and see my family, for one reason only, I understand his fanancial status, and I think that my family would understand we are going to need money to build our lives together, and I am sure that they would wish us to have a better life. Besides a son in law becomes a member of the family, and how could I expect my parents to suck their own child dry just because he says he loves me? I am glad that I come from a family that views lobolas in a different way and my parents are not struggling fanancially and dont need someone to take them out of poverty.
Tumelo 6/24/2009 10:22:20 AM
Mmmmm, looks like someone wants to impress her pale colleagues by ridiculing her culture and by extention herself.Lobola has nothing to do with expectation based transaction. In fact the bride and groom has little to do with the process, its totally the business of the elders and they forster their bonds through such a process and in turn bless the union between husband, wife and children. Continue with your shenanigans and when you hit rock bottom, remember you've been warned;dont play with ancestors,rather use your dildo. Stupid!
Vast 6/24/2009 10:24:33 AM
The people who don't agree with the author can't give an alternative view to counter her arguments, all they do instead is attack her personally which suggests they can't come up with a good reason why lobola isn't sexist. When you accuse Kazeka of being ignorant, you look even more foolish. Especially those who think a dowry is the same as lobola. In european cultures women were so undervalued that their families had to pay the man to take them off their hands.
Tgal 6/24/2009 10:32:28 AM
My father said to us(his gals) we should never marry until we have establish our independence, that is at least we have paid for our cars or houses and even medical aids, that way, you have some sort of fanancial responsibility. When one marries they dont marry for security (that is money) but marry for love. I think if we get this right we would have long lasting marriages, and people would stand by their partners when times are tough and not run away. I trueely believe in relationships that were first build on friendships than just falling for what the other person presents in your eyes. Men are not there to support women, those days are gone, sistas should be strong and be able to support themselves, and be there to love their partners and build lives with them.
Bad news 6/24/2009 10:38:04 AM
This is ridiculous. I don't know where you grew up and I guess you have no culture or religion. If you have religion its definately not Christianity or you don't believe in the bible either. You are lost: no culture and no religion, its a disaster (you should at least have one of the two). I guess you don't understand why people marry or you are one of those that get into a relationship for money (I have a sense you could be a woman because I can't tell from your name) or you have gone past the stage of marriage for such pathetic reasons. I am married and I am not even close to being a prostitute as I did not marry for sex. Prostitutes and married women are not even close. Better go find your culture (ask your parents if you still have or relatives, they will enlighten you) or join some religion.
Rebecca 6/24/2009 10:43:22 AM
obviously you wrote crap because nobody is willign to pay lobola for you. i cannot believe the are people who think like you out there. shame on you.........
FIKILE 6/24/2009 10:46:00 AM
My sister you are lost. Please do your research before u embarras yourself.
k 6/24/2009 10:49:42 AM
i dont even think u understand the lobala at all Please if you dont know about other people culture and you dont even understand do not say a word. lobola it my culture i understand every thing about it
Elaine 6/24/2009 11:14:50 AM
Your article does not actually deserve a response, but since I have some time to waste, I will respond. Once again - your Research is all wrong. Ever heard of literature review? Its done while one conducts research by referring to different sources for information. Journals, books (in the library) etc. May I suggest that you maybe try that?
Zola 6/24/2009 11:21:23 AM
Sisi, uneIDENTITY CRISIS endzima... You need to go find yourself. In fact, you need to speak to your elders because you may need a cultural intenvention...
mfete@gmail.com 6/24/2009 11:32:41 AM
...how then would you desrcibe the practise called 'ukubhinqisa umfazi', or 'ukwendisa' where brides' family bring household materials to the bridegroom's family with the same lobola money, or as a prostitue you are, do you buy presents for your very many clients.
bheki 6/24/2009 11:33:34 AM
Udakiwe futhi uyeyisa ,these are the things that make foreiners lookdown upon us because we have people like you who feed them wrong information which is not properly researched and insultive to our culture
Tumi 6/24/2009 11:37:22 AM
What are you going to teach your kids, sex isnt everything you know. Magadi/lobola is about a union of two families. All these White weddings gowns that we wear now to celebrate our wedding today is all Europian and some of us dont even know where it came from. Let me tell you something, once lobola is paid it means that you and your partner are legally married and that is our beautiful African Culture. Im really embarrased to read an article written by our very own black african questioning our culture and Norms. Very disturbing!!! How proud are you of who you are, ask your mother?
Phinah 6/24/2009 11:40:49 AM
Honey Bunch! If you are pro-prostitution, then just say so. Lobola does not go to the bride it goes to the elders: to say thanks for the great work they have done in raising your bride ITS NOT to say thanks for a 30 minutes sex session. .I have noticed taht people will do anything to discredit other people's culture especially if they have ulterior motives.
Peter 6/24/2009 11:58:34 AM
It is a matter of interpretation. In some other cultures in other parts of the world girl children are prejudiced against, because when they marry in due course, the family of the bride is required to pay the family of the groom, bringing a dowry to the groom. In that case the woman ends up being discriminated against in far more severe ways. And poor families even seek to abandon their girl babies.
thuli 6/24/2009 12:01:34 PM
Kazeka this is an insult to the black nation. Shame on you!
Pitso 6/24/2009 12:16:51 PM
I suggespit that you refrain from spreading malicious and unsubstantiated rumours. In future choose topics which you have the necesary competency to write about. I know that standards have gone in journalism but I never thought the columnist sink to this level of diatribe
Maz 6/24/2009 12:30:08 PM
Sisi, nna, I'm not a prostitute. My man did not pay for all those things because i'm not his maid, he knows how to wash dishes, cook, put washing in the washing machine, clean the house, make the bed, etc. to tell you the truth, i was involved in making the decision for my magadi. My dad is a very open person, he included me and my siblings (mom passed away), we all decided on the price. I'm glad to tell you that my lobola was not based on enriching my family, my father is too proud to be enriched by a man way younger than him. And all of that money is going to be used for the actual wedding ceremony. my father is not going to earn even a cent from it, he gave it all to me, to put safe for the wedding.
Mana 6/24/2009 12:31:33 PM
Its best that u jus shut up if you got nothing to write about.you have any respect for your parents.
Lerato 6/24/2009 12:36:03 PM
I got bored by just reading the tittle! I'm sure you are also BORED with your life! Let me suggest something then to you gal...GET A LIFE! What wasted space!
Rick 6/24/2009 12:36:48 PM
I have nothing against lobola - just remember, some cuts are better than others.
Lerato 6/24/2009 12:37:48 PM
I got bored just reading the headline! And I'm sure you are also BORED
Devils_Advocate 6/24/2009 12:39:02 PM
This is without a doubt the dumbest article published by News24 to date, I am at a loss for words and there is not enough space for me to respond as I would have liked. How dare you compare the African tradition to prostitution! The tradition of ilobola is meant to unify families and all in all give more respect to the woman if anything. I am a man and paid lobola for my wife and that means more to me than any other so called Western marriage. Further more you have exposed your shear ignorance by suggesting that ilobola is paid to the woman,where were you brought up? Your so called western marriages, the man usually pays a hell lot more for rings, wedding gowns, "Bachelors parties" tent rentals, flowers etc, is that prostitution?? Kakeza if you lack the knowledge of African cultures, please do proper research first or rather shut up!!
Bhinj 6/24/2009 12:48:45 PM
This article is pure rubbish, New24 reputation just got tainted by publishing such crap. Only a prostitute can attempt to attach a monetary value to an African tradition such as lobola. I am ashamed to be an African man after reading such crap from another African, if you really are an Afican
Mimi 6/24/2009 12:50:06 PM
You speak al lot of RUBBISH........do your research well, then comment... this is very offensive to the my culture.
TeeDee 6/24/2009 12:53:52 PM
So you are actually saying your mother was a prostitute , shame on you .If you dont agree with our african culture its your business but di=ont go around writing articles about matters that you dont really understand and are not interested in learning .I feel sorry for your mother she is being called an amagosha now!!!
ncera 6/24/2009 1:07:16 PM
"The potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppresed', Steve Biko. Wake up sisi and stop copping others. Even the prositution you refering to is so not African. If you want to disown your African identity do so without polluting the sobber minds of our sisters especiaaly those who commented to your article. Maybe you should yes indeed write more about your personal expirience as one of the readers suggested.
abraham 6/24/2009 1:12:50 PM
I understand your intent but I think u have phrased this article incorrectly to get a point across. I am of the opinion that the concept of Lobola rather than being sexist is as a whole a crazy practice but to many ills in the society. One would question, why we have a huge HIV infection rate, why arent many SA, namely blacks unmarried, and why is the infection rate high within the balck population when compared to other races. The underlying factor when u chat to people is that, they dont have money for lobola so they live together, have kids and mess around becaue they not married. Society has deviated from religious commands that lead to a good healthy society and resorted to tradition that has no basis especially since it negatively affects the society. I thing leaders
JCS 6/24/2009 1:16:29 PM
Brilliant! It is about time that someone speaks for the woman. All the comment makers missed the point! The writer did not critisized the culture, but merely the method. It is sexist if it is only for women and not for men. Men cannot talk on behalf of woman or visa versa. The consept of lobola sucks!
ncera 6/24/2009 1:22:43 PM
"The potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppresed', Steve Biko. Wake up sisi and stop copping others. Even the prositution you refering to is so not African. If you want to disown your African identity do so without polluting the sobber minds of our sisters especiaaly those who commented to your article. Maybe you should yes indeed write more about your personal expirience as one of the readers suggested.
Nthalala 6/24/2009 1:51:26 PM
If ur a woman u must be " lefetwa" how can u say such bad things about our culture, I'm still in my youth but I really embrace my culture i'm well educated and a professional dn't let being educated make u lose ur touch with ur roots, I will never do away with my culture pls Kazeka come back dn't be lost.
Tiny 6/24/2009 1:59:02 PM
I am not of the African culture but I have Always been interested in the way that Labola works as it always sounded very Romantic and a special thing between two people. I do not agree what you have said about Labola. and in any culture men and woman need to work in a relationship not only men. It takes two people to make a relationship work and it is damn hard work. That is why there is so many devorces in the world people do not work together anymore it is easier breaking people down. I really do not agree with anything that you said here. Please go back to your roots and find out what this is all about then come and write a article about it. You are probably still very young (Rebelious) and just do not understand the beauty of Cultural believes.
n 6/24/2009 2:19:51 PM
i agree with Wasfi Hendricks. Another reason why there is the whole lobola negotiations thing, is for the brides family to get an idea of the people that the daughter is getting married into. The delegation of relatives that come to represent the groom in asking for the daughter's hand in marriage can give a good reflection to the daughter's relatives of what their daughter will be dealing with during her married life.
Gary 6/24/2009 2:45:37 PM
I paid lobola for my wife and I feel insulted that you compare my wife to a prostitute. If you don't belief in other people's beliefs, that does not give you the right to redicule or even insult them just because you have access to the media.
Thabang 6/24/2009 2:48:45 PM
whoever you are , you are such big shame to your mother and your and your grandmothers if ever you had one.... do your research first but i wonder if you know what is a research , before publishing nonsese about our beautiful Queens calling them prostitutes. If if you dont have a man to marry you then go play in the traffic.
Bajah 6/24/2009 2:50:42 PM
my only concern is why pay the whole amount for lobola whereare the woman is gonna divorce your ass in 8 months after you've forked out so much money for her,so tell me how is that building (ubuhlobo)
Snazo 6/24/2009 2:54:07 PM
Granted this is an opinion piece, I have to agree with earlier comments, the writer did no research. Lobola is only one part of the process. There are gift giving ceremonies that are called diffent names depending on your culture (ummabo/umembhatisa in Zulu).The entire process should be a zero sum game because the lobola the man pays should be returned to the his family in the form of gifts. I think attension should be focused in adressing some of the perversions that have creeped into the lobola culture instead of just trashing it. When it is done properly, you will be amazed with what you learn about yourself, your family and your future in-laws.
Mandisa 6/24/2009 2:59:17 PM
To all of you criticising the author: You should be ashamed of yourselves. We need to look at our culture and keep on growing as a nation and a people. Women aren't treated well and just saying "you know nothing of traditions" will not help. My husband also paid lobola, and I don't feel like a prostitute, but why are we so scared to talk about it?
Disrespectful of black culture 6/24/2009 3:02:20 PM
I suggest that you first get your facts in a row next time you write about articles like this one. How dare you compare my sister whose lobola have been paid to prostitutes! Well let me educate you when lobola is paid the money goes to the bride's parents and it stays there. With prostitution the woman gets the money and it ends there. DON'T YOU EVER EVER UNDERMINE MY CULTURE LIKE THIS. IF YOU CAN'T BE PROUD OF YOUR OWN BLACK CULTURE I SUGGEST THAT YOU GO AND BLEACH YOUR FACE. I AM TOTALLY DISGUSTED AND IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE A NOVICE AT WRITING PLEASE THEN START SMALL WITH A SIMPLE SUBJECT TO WRITE ABOUT.
Lizy 6/24/2009 3:09:54 PM
OH sorry girl please try to understand things better. comparing lobola with prostitution shows that you do not know lobola ask people who know lobola and its value because your article is just an embarasment .
Nkazi 6/24/2009 3:12:52 PM
I will not resort to claiming that you are a "sell-out" or don't "understand culture" as these are insults, more than any coherent argument. But, I have to take task with your ability to argue/debate a point. Firstly, your argument lives in the world of black and white, whereby men only see the payment of money in lieu of a woman, to be equal to prostitution. We don?t live in such a world, but one of grey shades. Secondly, in a proper debate, you would destroyed by your opponent by them not needing to prove that lobola doesn?t equate prostitution, but by proving that your underlying premise is something debaters refer to as a "slippery slope". To assume that it does amount to prostitution, you must fundamentally believe that ALL/ MOST men believe that any exchange of money involving a woman directly or indirectly, must mean that you can treat her like a prostitute. This is wild guessing at best and irresponsible thinking at worst. This qualifies your premise as a slippery slope. This alone, would invalidate your argument... For a learned person, I really expect better from you.
thandi 6/24/2009 3:20:34 PM
What the heck are u talking about! i agree that u really havent done your research! as far as i know, is lobola meant as gift to the parents of the bride from the groom and also an indication that he will be able to provide for his bride in future! you really need to refrain from making such statements and giving other people who don't know much of our culture such a wrong impression!
cleopatra jones 6/24/2009 3:25:11 PM
Sadly, it takes an intelligent woman to see the point that the writer is making. Most women accept the double standards and added responsibilities of being a woman today without question - Indian and African alike. I would like to point out the dowry system is abolished in India, and is not practised in SA anymore - so Angel you are on your own. But I think instead of cutting off her head, see - really see the point she is making. As liberated as we women are, we are still the slaves. Think about it!
Dudu 6/24/2009 3:25:34 PM
Kazeka Mashologu kaKuse; are u sure ure african????? any africa woman knows that they cant marry without a lobola being paid!!!! its tradition and if ur men treats you like a prostitute, dont think that our men do. Please do research and u'll know know wat LOBOLA MEANS.
Norroy 6/24/2009 3:26:49 PM
All women are prostitutes, they only differ in their levels of prostitutions. In order to make them yours, you have to fork out money for them. If the guy does not have money, they will dump his ass. Everytime you need to have a good time with a woman, a guy must fork out money. Men have always paid for sex and they will always do until the end of time. There is no romance without finance. So, to all you brain-diseased feminists, spare us the political correctness knowing that your hands too are full of blood.
Norroy 6/24/2009 3:27:05 PM
All women are prostitutes, they only differ in their levels of prostitutions. In order to make them yours, you have to fork out money for them. If the guy does not have money, they will dump his ass. Everytime you need to have a good time with a woman, a guy must fork out money. Men have always paid for sex and they will always do until the end of time. There is no romance without finance. So, to all you brain-diseased feminists, spare us the political correctness knowing that your hands too are full of blood.
Dee 6/24/2009 3:28:40 PM
this is utter twaak!!!Kazeka doesnt have a brain. she needs to convert to writing grafitti on toilet walls.
Fundiswa Ngubo (call me Fundie) do not use my real name plz. 6/24/2009 3:40:27 PM
How disappointing for someone from PE to speak like this about our culture and tradition? I hope you are not speaking from experience from the way your mother was treated by your father and all the womenfolk of your family. This practice has been done in my family for ages and we are not about to change now because of stupid people like you. Women are respected and worshipped in my family and do not lose their identity either by changing their surnames to that of their husbands. That is why they are called by their clan names even though they were given a new names when they married to our family. Even when introductions are made a man would say I married a girl/woman from so & so mentioning the wife's surname and clan name. You seem to be bitter and have issues about something. Whatever the case maybe don't you dare take out your frustrations out on our precious culture. I am a married woman and lobola was paid for me and I'm proud of that too. My husband treats me well and as an equal, consultation is the name of the game in my household. I am nobody's slave. You must be a loose woman indeed.
Mjita 6/24/2009 3:42:23 PM
Sisi, from what I read it seems you missed important points about your subject matter. In isiZulu the lobola is defined by cows. They are all mentioned in their order. One of them is called inquthu kamama. In simple terms it the person who has given birth to you. There are so many processes which invlove both family elders before you actualy settle as husband and wife. So please stop this emotional outburst. Imagine marrying a person whom you do not even know their family because you failed to undergo all the neccessary procceses Africans undertake before they marry. Maybe you are only exposed to couples who jumped the wagon and rushed to Home affairs to sign. These days africans also do white weddings, you have a choice not to discourage something you know little about. If you don't like it leave it
Guyver 6/24/2009 3:50:45 PM
For once now, don't you wish you were a white in South Africa ?
K 6/24/2009 3:54:50 PM
The first bit about lobola being compared to prostitution is so wrong! Please dude never insult or confuse a process such as lobola or marriage as prostitution. However, having said that, some of your points about patriarchy and building of relationships via transactions do resound with my sentiments. Lobola should bring families togather, everyone, including the the wife to be. She must be respected and fully involved within the process and issues that arise. If not, then there is still a huge problem which will be perpetuated forever. Lastly, if we long to see the institution of marriage survive in this day and age, processes which deem to put women at a low level should be reviewed, equality of sexes should be achieved and maintained even from the very beginning of the institution of marraige.
k2 6/24/2009 4:00:35 PM
your article is very very sad. you are a black women be proud of it. lobola is your culture. dont allow the western world to corrupt you. be proud of who you are
LPG 6/24/2009 4:00:41 PM
Hi Guys, I think the lady has a point in saying that women don't necessarily have an active role to play in the negotiations. In most cases, the men are the one's allowed to discuss on their behalf, like many of the changing ways, we maybe need to sit back and review the role of women without side lining them. The comparison to prositution is completely off the mark and I believe this has spoilt what could have been a great point of discussion.
Vince 6/24/2009 4:02:17 PM
Hey who ever you are, my wife is not a prostitude. I paid my lobola with pride and joy. And believe me you are totally lost. This is a nonsense article i have read about our culture. I doubt if you are married or will get married one day.
tlhami 6/24/2009 4:03:15 PM
Ya'll are carrying on in english and I think you should give it to her in her own language to avoid any miscomprehension.
Apple 6/24/2009 4:08:25 PM
can we please have this debate at Ellis Park after the Bafana match because really I could break a few necks starting with the writer's.
Toto 6/24/2009 4:13:20 PM
Listen, Kazeka Mashologu kaKuse! LOBOLA is a kind gesture/offering of appreciation/thanks for a well raised woman to her elders! If you are ashamed or embarrsed by you African heritage, Do not patronize the rest of us, with such an insulting comparison! You can't even translate isZulu? "ukwakha ubuhlobo" translates to extending family ties...? Were you maybe sold by your family? Are you even a South African? Because woman are very much a part of the lobola process. In every culture(local or International) the woman of the house is the primary care giver(Cooking, Cleaning and nursing) AND WE DO TAKE ON OUR HUSBANDS LAST NAME(this is done all over the world)...not as possesions but with pride of being his right hand, life companion! I hope you have you dad's surname? maybe that;s why your mislead, uninformed about our BEAUTIFUL CULTURE! And in anycase our traditional weddings are so large and costly at times celebrated over days, not of the lobola is spent on our TRADITIONAL WEDDING RITUALS!!!
MARRIED WOMAN & NOT ASHAMED 6/24/2009 4:14:48 PM
KAZEKA DEAR YOU'RE VERY IGNORANT OF OUR CULTURE. I'M SURE EVEN A GRADE 10 STUDENT WOULD RIGHT A BETTER ARTICLE...RESEARCH, RESEARCH.RESEARCH......
Lesego 6/24/2009 4:24:21 PM
I think you have lost your mind! I'm young, not married and never understood the concept of lobola till I was in a steady relationship. Go back to the black roots and culture, before you make such a statement. the wetern world is making a lot of people belittle the black culture. Yes we are eating their foods, dressing like them, talking like them, and even be best friends with them, but that does not mean we have to forget about out culture. Lobola is the uniting of two families, and that's a sign of respect between a man and his wife to be, and 2 families.
inalox 6/24/2009 4:28:48 PM
quite saddening that a black person will write an article of this nature. there's too much negativity in this article and totally disrespect or lack of information regarding cultural values. we are having a hard enough time juggling culture and urbanisation, we do not need such pessimistic views being spread around like this. there is still a place for lobola, infact i will never marry a woman without paying it.
Happy-Lobola 6/24/2009 4:29:24 PM
i gladly 'did' the right thing by asking my uncles to ask my wife's family for permission to make her my wife(official life partner). i am an executive and my wife an engineer and we limit western influence to our careers. I am a modern man, yeah i cook, clean the house help out with the kid etc...and best of all..i have both sets of families who gives us identity..my wife took my surname but that doesn't mean she suddenly became some1..African culture identifies us and we should not look down..If you need a loving man(and yes he will honour by Magadi)....you still have hope, African don't keep grudges!!
Micado 6/24/2009 4:34:43 PM
Kazeka, if you dont know what to write about just keep quiet. How dare you compare our mothers and sisters with prostitutes? I dont even know who allowed this article to be publicied, Nx
curious 6/24/2009 4:34:58 PM
everyone is claiming the author should educate herself without actually constructively making a counter argument. its an extreme analogy, you could push it further and say that not even wedding rings should be exchanged, or perhaps even vows. but i do agree that bartering for women with cattle or money is without doubt a tradition that stems from male dominated society where women were second class. the tradition itself should change for those who want to still practise it. instead of huge expensive costs in the transaction it should be something more symbolic
Zinhle 6/24/2009 4:45:55 PM
I am so ashamed that the person who wrote this article is a a black person. If it was the opposite I would understand since the subject (Lobola) is part of our culture. It is not a business agreement (hence prostitution) Sisi go and do your research and write articles that reflect true sense of our culture so that we teach other communites about without misleading.
Worried 6/24/2009 4:46:59 PM
I'm really worried at how people can attack someone like this. You people are disgusting. Also this one comment about wanting to break the author's neck?? She is allowed an opinion. Let those that want to have an opinion allowed to do so. Calling her stupid and loose are ridiculous arguments. You can clearly see she's knowloedgeable as most of you can't even string a sentence together as well as she does. Why call her loose because she has an opinion? Outrageous. Only the bravest try and be different, the rest all follow like sheep. Good writing.
sipho 6/24/2009 4:54:34 PM
I would like to strangle this person who has lost his/ her dignity , who has no cultural knowledge . Are you trying to tell us that your father paid your mother for prostitution favours , therefore your the token of prostitution (son of prostitute ) shame on you. I think you are the only son of prostitute I ever known , You need to appologize publickly
sbu 6/24/2009 5:03:28 PM
I agree with you 100% my sister. it seems people don't want to hear the truth. It is indeed true that we need to interrogate this lobola thing 'cause to me, it is a totally outdated practice. The simple truth of the matter is that us as black people will never do away with it because its an easy source of money with little effort. Before somebody lectures me about the fact that they have raised their daughter and spent money in this and in that, yes of course you did, and so did my parents raising me as a son.
Retsilisitose 6/24/2009 5:17:53 PM
I agree with you on one point,that is you lost your Africaness and are indeed Eurocentric. You argument is null and void.You extremely bitter as well and oh, get you facts straight because you'll be lost forever.
Camelthief 6/24/2009 5:36:19 PM
Comparisons with a prostitute are not insults. What's wrong with being a prostitute? At least they are honest about the transaction! People if your cultural practices cannot bear scrutiny and cannot move forward with the spirit of the age - then it is a poor culture. Millions of women suffer under the oppression that is inherent in and grows out of sexist cultural practices. The fact is JZ DID endanger the lives of his wives and they had no say in that whatsoever....that's what grows out of your culture...very nice
camelthief 6/24/2009 5:38:29 PM
most comments have missed the point of this article completely
Urs 6/24/2009 5:43:17 PM
I've always thought it was a proud tradition and something to cherish and uphold. I believed it was a compensation to the bride's family for the loss of her, not payment for her services...
Thandi 6/24/2009 5:47:56 PM
Labola is an utterly sexist practice. A male has to "buy or pay for? his female, but a female does not have to "buy" her male. If we have double standards for the different sexes, then it is by definition sexist! It is also cruel. In Western cultures, the parents of newlyweds go out of their way to help them get on their feet. With Labola, the man must hand over a substantial part of resources to the bride?s father. This leaves the newlyweds with fewer resources to start off with. We have a huge number of fathers who actually feel entitled to receive ?payment? for their daughters. This is inexcusable primitive, cruel, degrading and insulting for the bride who is treated as a commodity. Do not disguise this injustice as cute tradition / heritage.... Next thing we should tackle is the brutal, painful and merciless killing of cattle in the name of a feast or celebration. Are we such a bunch of barbarians? Common, lets show the world that we are decent human beings. Thandi.
Keneilwe 6/24/2009 6:25:15 PM
Sister is trying to impress her white friends at our expense. This article insults the core of who we black people are. Our culture has always been about respect, love and BOTHO which is are foreign concepts in Europe. And yes the head of the family is the man but that does not mean that he can not cook or wash the dishes. Lets look at issues into context. Lobola will not work for white folk but works for us. AND WHITEY PLEASE DONT EVEN GO THERE. IGNORANCE IS NOT CUTE...
Sia 6/24/2009 7:53:30 PM
I'm of the opinion that ilobolo is meant to build family ties and a nation for that matter. Cultures and Traditions were formulated on good grounds to grow a responsible and successful nation. Women have found their voice and are now our equals and so this tradition should take that into consideration. But I can't help but take offence on how you have a shallow angle at what this process is trying to achieve. Sure it might have been tainted by ills over the recent years that need to be addressed but not this way my sister. There is many ways you could have made your point but you ended up infuriorating a nation and its a shame coz good points you had will end up falling to deaf ears as you made ppl defensive as a result. In the end this subject ended up being shallow as it came across as loveless and unhuman.
SPHOSHO 6/24/2009 8:16:59 PM
SHAME!!! EMBARRASSMENT!!! What sort of article is this.
Khudu 6/24/2009 8:55:08 PM
Wow, what a disappointing piece of wasted energy and effort! I shudder to think that my beautiful woman, who brought us three (3) wonderful people to this earth can, and, is actually compared to a Magosha. Really, whatever your name is - get a bloody life. I am not going to mention the merits of ilobolo in this piece - you are definitely lazy to use your brains - I might lose you. It is so predictable, it is always African culture that will be questioned and nothing about European culture. Good luck in serving your European Masters by writing this kind of crap - you probably need to pay your rent.
AFRICANTHRU&THRU 6/25/2009 5:21:41 AM
A young african man will notice a young african lady for a bride, inform the father - father has cows in his kraal but will advise the young man to go work and start buying cows for lobola, maybe from daddy or---. what does this alone tell you? what is the father teaching the son? after the son buy a number of cows, the father + other family members chip in to make the number (traditionally 11) then from there a series of interesting meetings (abakhongi)take place. until the wedding days. now, some of those cows will be given to the newly wed couple to start their home. I JUST LOVE MY SOUTH AFRICAN CUSTOMS AND CULTURE ++++++FOOD, PLEASE DON'T DO AWAY WITH ALL THIS BEAUTY. WHAT ARE YOU REALLY TYING TO SAY. TAKE OUT THE PROSTITUTE PART. START THERE AND MAKE YOUR POINT CLEAR!!!
AZ 6/25/2009 8:03:28 AM
Although the comparison to prosititution may be a strong comparison, i tend to lean towards agreeing with the idea of lobola as Kakeza put it. The question that stands out that no- one has commented on is "is it about the money or is it not?". I think in this day lobala has been commercialised to enrich those who would seek to benefit from it. It is not about love or relationship or anything else. The statistics of marriage in SA prove that. Many more men who DO love their women would be married if not for teh financial obligation of lobola and the wedding itslef. There would be far less single mothers and co- habittion. It seems to me that the "so- called" culture is actually much more important to poeple thatn the relationships that the "culture" are supposed to be nurturing. From the previous comments it is clear that this is one of the holiest cows amongst us black people, and those of us who think of it differently will be labeled as uncultured, un- Afrian and culturally un-educated. Cutlture must serve its poeple, not vise- versa.
Genevieve 6/25/2009 8:20:51 AM
You're out of your mind girl. Go home and ask you elders to teach you more about your culture and stop embarrasing yourself. If you want to be "Lekgowa" is fine, stop bad mouthing our culture mama.
Mypoposi 6/25/2009 8:36:36 AM
OH MY WORD....clearly Kazeka you are not a christian or even a true african.I feel sorry for you because your childhood upbringing clearly was not great at all.If you are a true african then you should know what lobola is about.If you are a man then surely you should know that men who pay lobola for their wives are proud and have high self esteem and women who are married(with lobola paid) are dignified and well respected within their communities.Please do your research(ask the wise) and find out about paying lobola.This is an embarassing article.Shame man...
cyberdog 6/25/2009 8:38:19 AM
@Keneilwe you are such an idiot. What does race have to do with this? The argument here is whether or not lobola is a valid practice. If you can't substantiate your argument then don't say things you can't prove. Have you an idea who writer the writer socialises with? Do you know it for a fact? Present facts if you want anyone to take you seriously.
MGIVE 6/25/2009 8:44:28 AM
Who is this lady? Kazeka.. Hey wena sisi what sort of an article is this? What were you thinking? haaaa... Do yourself a favour (stop embarrasing yourself and our culture)
mkhanya 6/25/2009 8:44:29 AM
Even a five years old child would not write a poor argument like this. do a good reseach first, you embarrass yoursef.
Ndrabi 6/25/2009 8:48:20 AM
Its shame that you cant think for yourself. How can you call our mothers prostitutes. We should respect other peoples culture and do what we think is right without questioning others. I will be more dissapointed if you are a black.
ozelthea 6/25/2009 9:32:19 AM
I dont know why all of you are implying that lobola is only practised in the african culture, yet i am mixed between hindu and coloured and my husband is nigerian. Lobola is not being traded as a prostitute or slave to your husband but it is seen as two families coming together not only via their kids but through traditions. SO I AM PROUD TO SAY 10 YEARS DOWN THE LINE FOUR BEAUTIFULL KIDS I AM RECOGNISED IN AFRICAN CULTURE AS A QUEEN IN MY HUSBANDS FAMILY AND MINE.
tams 6/25/2009 9:40:22 AM
I feel our culture has been insulted so much in this article. such articles should not published, because they are killing what we as african stand for. they are telling the younger generation that our culture promotes immorality actions such as prostitution. Kazeka, you are an african, women are to be respected, loved and appreciated. there is no amount of money that can buy you a wife. but ilobola is a gift (like an amount westen people spend on an engagement ring) not that you are paying for her. you know what this is disgusting not to mention horrible. Oh! What is prostitution. Prostitution is defined as the act of engaging in sexual activity in exchange for money or goods how can you compare someone's wife to a prostitute
Mili 6/25/2009 10:03:06 AM
This article is an insult to our culture, traditions and beliefs as africans. Lobola was initially meant to build relations between the two families and it was hardly about money and how much of it can be exchanged. i remember some people telling me they exchanged ploughing utensils. i think if the article ahd focuse4d more on how the practice could be adapted to fit in the days we live in now it would have been a great artcle. not to compare our mothers to prostitutes....that is a total insult and its a shame a black person actually wrote this article. also, if you think lobola is sexist, then you dont know what lobola entails. women do get involved by the way, at the age of 22 i had the opportunity of actually sitting on the table and accepting lobola money, i am a female...check your facts. i agree with you Khudu, why is african culture always being questioned???? if there is one thing that the non-africans have managed to do to us africans is make us feel like we are really living like animals and our traditions are totally inhumane. i am a post graduate professional who is very modenised but let me tell you, should i decide to marry, i am going the lobal route....that is being african and proud of it. have you ever wondered why these "white" weddings never last???? lobola is not just the exchange of money, there are so many ceremonies/meetings that take place to prepare the two parties for marriage. the author of this article surely needs to go do some thorough research into african traditions and they will see we are one of the most grounded nations this world has ever seen. my mother has been happily married for more than 30 years, yes, my dad payed lobola. you cannot point fingers at lobola if a wife who had been wed through the lobola process is abused, that is an individual mishap. african men can also be loving family men...they go wrong when they move away from their traditions and live like some unknowns.
Mili 6/25/2009 10:10:10 AM
This article is an insult to our culture, traditions and beliefs as africans. Lobola was initially meant to build relations between the two families and it was hardly about money and how much of it can be exchanged. i remember some people telling me they exchanged ploughing utensils. i think if the article ahd focuse4d more on how the practice could be adapted to fit in the days we live in now it would have been a great artcle. not to compare our mothers to prostitutes....that is a total insult and its a shame a black person actually wrote this article. also, if you think lobola is sexist, then you dont know what lobola entails. women do get involved by the way, at the age of 22 i had the opportunity of actually sitting on the table and accepting lobola money, i am a female...check your facts. i agree with you Khudu, why is african culture always being questioned???? if there is one thing that the non-africans have managed to do to us africans is make us feel like we are really living like animals and our traditions are totally inhumane. i am a post graduate professional who is very modenised but let me tell you, should i decide to marry, i am going the lobal route....that is being african and proud of it. have you ever wondered why these "white" weddings never last???? lobola is not just the exchange of money, there are so many ceremonies/meetings that take place to prepare the two parties for marriage. the author of this article surely needs to go do some thorough research into african traditions and they will see we are one of the most grounded nations this world has ever seen. my mother has been happily married for more than 30 years, yes, my dad payed lobola. you cannot point fingers at lobola if a wife who had been wed through the lobola process is abused, that is an individual mishap. african men can also be loving family men...they go wrong when they move away from their traditions and live like some unknowns.
Daniel 6/25/2009 10:26:52 AM
Dear Editor, Good grief but this article seems to have hit a soft spot! I have done much to explore and learn about other cultures and religions even if it is something I dont agree with in principle. And in my experience if you start a discussion on any such issue only those who are hardline, close-minded people would instantly become agressive. If you cant take any criticism then it only means that you have serious confidence issues. Either you have not openly looked at yourself, religion or culture and you have not weighed according to other people, culture or religions. Before you jump around and become defensive or aggressive ask yourself why are you getting angry? Its not because someone else is doubting you, your culture or religion. After all it is commonly accepted that not everyone will subscribe to everyone else's lifestyle and most people are fine with that. People accept that so why cant you accept critisism and try to use it to improve on it? Kind regards Daniel
relay 6/25/2009 11:33:31 AM
thats so wrong, the two should never be compared....they nare totally different..
ANTICAMELTHIEF 6/25/2009 11:49:12 AM
SO MANY PEOPLE LOST THEIR IDENTITY,WHO YOU ARE ANYWAY,IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU COMING FROM ,JUST JOIN ANYONE .
Lerato 6/25/2009 1:16:15 PM
Kazeka, though I appreciate you have a brain, I feel sad it comes up with such thoughtlesness. Just compare the number of men a prostitute sleeps with to the number of men that pay lobola for a single woman, think of the number of people involved in both situations. Before you allow your brain to come up with such baseless, nonsensical insults, do humanity, and yourself a favour. Think! That's what your brain was made for. You are creating hate towards yourself from both males, females and your elders! Were you raised by both your parents? Did whatever it is that raised you teach you to find it proper to disrespect? Your article is disghusting!
sekgametsi 6/25/2009 2:04:21 PM
obviously, you have a problem and I think I think you've been paying for sex all your life to say things like this about our culture. sis, o wa swabisa, gaaaaaa
sesi 6/25/2009 5:35:05 PM
how dare you question lobola? who do you think you are, if you feel you cant pay lobola or cant be lobolad dont take it out on us, go get yourself a men/women who is not an african. finish en klaar
Masterpro 6/26/2009 2:47:57 PM
Your argument is below par?.I don?t know what to say, but this ridiculous and shows your appalling level of unintelligence
Sebabatso 6/28/2009 6:04:32 PM
This is the most ridiculos article I have ever read.! I am very disappointed!
Boipelo 6/29/2009 11:27:46 AM
Hey! Kazeka,are u a man or a woman?Please don't mislead others.I'm married and lobola was paid for me,BUT I'm not a prostitute.I help on everything in the house.Ek is nie die huis raad. @Norroy, your comments sucks.Do have a mother,sister or grand mother coz I belief they are included in your "all women".The dark cloud is hanging over you for such an insult.
Thabi 6/29/2009 11:30:24 AM
I fully agree with the author. Lobola in this day and age, should be looked at within the context of the current day, taking into consideration issues of gender equality.
Luvuyo N. 6/29/2009 12:54:43 PM
No offence to Kazeka, but you're a moron, dear! Do proper research to get all your facts straight before you make silly comparisons about anything, especially when it comes to culture. I'm a man & intend 2 pay pay lobola for my future wife. I AM NOT BUYING HER or ANY FAVOURS FROM HER. The lobola issue is between the families not our relationship. It will be a token of appreciation to her family for raising a wonderful person that she is more than anything. Some of the favours u claim men buy men (cleaning..... ) perform themselves. However u are right that the finace aspects sometimes clouds the importance of friendship But Please do not insult our african sisters/mother!
chriss 6/29/2009 4:28:10 PM
Ridiculous,shame on you.Don't you know that even whites use to pay 'lobola' around 18 centuries and it was women who pay?.please make some reaserch fisrt.
mandla 6/30/2009 7:07:01 AM
I would like to disagree with kazeka. Married woman are not prostitutes and it would be wrong to compare lobola with prostitutions fee. However I would like to commend you for opening a dialog on this sensitive issue. Maybe we should concentrate on whether the lobola is it still having value in our society is it still being practice correctly for the right purpose.
Lerato 6/30/2009 9:53:05 AM
I have no words, this article was not suppose to have been published in the first place.
Cynthia 6/30/2009 11:53:47 AM
Woman u are an embarrasment to the black community. Its obvious no one is going to marry you. I was paid lobola and i am a very proud black woman. Even if they dont pay lobola for you u will still sleep with the man, cook , have children and all the rest. Why dont u marry a white man?
Bongi 6/30/2009 11:57:26 AM
How is lobola the same as prostitution. Pleas do not undermine our culture like that just because you don't understand it. NX!!!!!!
Segos 6/30/2009 3:21:03 PM
I have white people ask me to explain the concept of lobola to them & that I can live with. Your article has been enlightening in that it has proved to me that whites are not the only ones who don't get it! I would also like to point out to you that what makes us beautiful as black people is our beautiful, unique traditions....but if u want to let go of them - feel free!
matlakala 7/2/2009 11:49:42 AM
surely this is an urgliest woman in the world.bitter coz no one in this world would pay lobola for you. shame on you we dont people like you in this country.
Antoinette 7/2/2009 1:57:14 PM
I think you do not understand the culture of Africans. Of course you cannot compare it with prostetusion. Now I am a white woman and do not understand the whole process, but defenitely it is not the way you describe it. On the lighter side, I am married, no labola was paid and I am in any case my husband's 'slave'. Working outside the house, cook, clean, washing, etc. and no money was even paid for me. So we all do the same when married. But I have never seen a prostitute that do the cooking, cleaning, washing etc. And by the way the sex part of the marriage is suppose to be fun. Perhaps later in life you will start to understand!
Thulile 7/2/2009 2:18:39 PM
Yo... Kazeka, where on earth are you from. I've never read such nonsense. Even whites nowadays try very hard to understand our culture, please do the same; Idiot!
Indian Bride 7/2/2009 3:29:41 PM
I have had a traditional indian wedding, where the bride pays the groom money! does that make my hubby a male prostitute?
Jo 7/2/2009 5:46:53 PM
Kazeka, thanks for this. Although the comparison of lobola to prostitution may be a little harsh.. it's also very healthy to question traditions that have been handed down. Some traditions are good, some pointless and some downright dangerous. Although our cultural heritage is very important, its always healthy to keep an open mind and question everything. Thank you for another opinion on the matter, very refreshing.
lobola 7/2/2009 8:38:05 PM
U'r wrong by saying lobola's like prostitution. lobola is only about bringing 2 families 2gether but I'm not happy with some of the amounts charged / asked. Wat happens 2 those who can't even pay the minimum asked? no marriage. there's not even a guarantee for the woman U paid lobola 4. Y can't I get my money back if she's not being the woman culture expects her 2 b. Y hide on culture? it's a money making scheme 4 some. if U didn't hav cows 2 milk, don't milk some1 else...
P 7/7/2009 3:34:58 PM
plz idiot do some research b4 u right this rubish.do u mean our mothers are prostitute including yours.my wife is prostitute?how pathetic u write such nonsense.Get ur facts right and stop disrespecting our culture
Lolo 7/8/2009 7:40:03 AM
Why don't you marry without lonola and leave us alone beacause we were paid lobala for. Your mother is obviously a prostitute, and I'm sure you are a prostitute too that why you are writing such rubbish. As for Norroy you suck so please do not comment on things you don't know. This woman must be a lebian or not mentally well. What difference does it make because even if there was bo lobola paid, you still sleep with the man and cook for him. Poor people especially in informal settlements have husbands without lobola so where the hell do you come from fool!!!!!!!
SSM 7/10/2009 2:14:49 PM
Norroy, you and Kazeka seem to have one thing in common you both have issues. Has it occured to you before you write "all women are prostitutes" that you included women in your family? this therefore, says a lot about your relationship with women in your family.
Skoko 7/10/2009 3:56:35 PM
Please stop haressing this prostitude. Anyway it takes one to know one. Look she's really a "lefetwa" and it shows that she's jealous of her friends and family woman who got paid lobola. Sweety, that's why you are not in a stable relationship cause you are a prostitude. Sis Tikatsi kwena.
KOKO 7/10/2009 4:08:39 PM
I was not intending to respond to this but then let me lower standards to your level Kazeka. i find it strange that you are calling your mom a prostitute unless you were born of a single parent and in Xhosa we have a word for such kids but i'm not going there right now. Ilobola for your own information would mean a friendly gesture from the groom family to the brides, but anyway let alone today it is commercialised it is not a payment for sex. Maybe there are things you don't know about it so my advice would be please next-time you write about something you should do your research well.
New bride 7/15/2009 1:12:24 PM
You are so ignorant Kazeka it's embarassing, do your research thouroughly before you write such utter garbage.
Lera 7/15/2009 2:00:11 PM
I agree but strongly disagree with the writer of the article. Just because modern society has now commercialised lobola it does not mean that the essence of lobola and the way it was meant to be used is was to turn women into prostitutes. And at the end of the day women have a huge role to play and as a woman you can discuss it with your parents the ikhazi.
Panashe 7/16/2009 1:11:13 PM
i agree that lobola has become sumwat commercialized, i personally would want the cattle not the money, but other times it is simply impractical to have a bakkie of cattle loaded to ur house in a security estate. that said i dont think the author clearly wat lobola (and perhaps many other African traditions) are about..lobola can be viewd as more of a 'gift' in thanks for raising the beautiful young woman about to be married into the family, the terms are often not negotiated by the bride to be's parents but rather respected relatives of the bride who certainly will not directly benefit. i wonder if i am wrong or too 'backward' in seeing this as an appraisal and sign of respect for women in our culture that is so often (blindly) dubbed as sexist? i am not unaware that there are flaws in our traditions as there are in many others, but this is not one to be written off as a veiled prostitution syndicate
monna 7/21/2009 1:28:57 PM
As a woman I have never come across such insult especially from a woman.Kazeka you should me ashamed of yourself for puting ilobolo and protitution in the same sentence, if the western way of fat en set suit you it clearly show how little respect you have for yourself
Insulted 7/22/2009 4:41:30 PM
Go to hell man , if u dont believe in lobola no one is forcing you to you morron, definately you comming from the bush you dont even understatnd the meaning of lobola. this supposed to be an advise column not a bloody cultural insulting column. long-term prostitute !!! what hell....does this mean marriage is only about sex to you ?
Mandy 7/23/2009 8:44:43 AM
If you feel that you dont like something then leave it. I see LOBOLA as a token of appreciation from the groom to his bride's parents for bringing up a beautiful respectable lady that he wants to spend the rest of his life with.
Portia 7/23/2009 11:34:24 AM
You completely miss the point. it's clear that you don't know anyhting about African Culture. I feel sorry for your lost mind and soul.
Nompilo 7/24/2009 10:17:56 AM
kazeka it's research is crucial if you're going to write about a topic that touches on other people's beliefs and tradition. Long term prostitute? So your relationships are really all about money. Please do us a favour, gather your brains, do your research and write about things you have knowledge of and are qualified to write about. And please tell your white readers that just becasue there's an uninformed moron who writes about things they aren't equiped to write about doesn't make us want to be white at all. BEING BLACK IS ONE OF THE BEST GIFTS GOF GAVE ME.
lilitha 7/24/2009 11:51:39 AM
No, i think Kazeka is bitter. There must be something else triggering her comments. It may be in her upbringing or elsewhere. My suggestion is that, she stops fighting hard in order to be noticed. Take it one step at a time. U'll get there. U don't need to despise your culture sisi. There may be many things under the topic of disagreement in our culture...but badmouthing and labeling people as prostitutes is way too out of line. Ok ke noMhamha? Now take a deep breath and start writing afresh!!!
JJ 7/25/2009 12:36:19 PM
There are plenty of ways in which you could have argued your distaste for Labola, and you probably would have recieved a very different response from the majority of woman, but you chose to equate your very own cultural practise to prostitution? Now for someone who should be an educated individual you sue are backward.
Nyimbo 7/29/2009 2:46:25 PM
Kazeka Mashologu kaKuse got it all wrong. I think the writer is talking about ukwakha ubungane, which is building friendship and not ukwakha ubuhlobo. He/she needs to be re-educated in his/her customs or the practice of this noble tradition.
Lesego Patricia Ntsie 7/29/2009 4:36:57 PM
I am lost without words who is this person and where does he come from Lobala will always exist its a way of bonding the two families and if we do not follow what our ancestors started long ago we will parish forever and be lost. Some countries and cultures have a way of combining the two families together. He is undermining our culture plus he is a moron who doesnt have intergrity and lacks ubuntu how dare he splashes our culture like this nogal on the net. You should be ashamed of yourself whoever you are..
Nols 7/31/2009 4:33:43 PM
Kazeka O a swabisa! Your argument is weak, too weak to even bother to go nto detail. You're clearly not married hence your shocking naivity in the subject of lobola. Yes lobola is meant to bring the families together, it's "symbolic" dummie. For your information le tme educate you on what my mother's approach was. She indicated to mys sister and I that we shoud first agree with our boyfriends on how much they can afford. When our lobolas were paid, they were not negotiated, they were preempt by us with our significant others. Remeber that after the weding, we must build a house into a home, therefore money is resuired akere? I have been happily married for 3 years and never once have I felt like a prostitute. OR do you think married people have sex 24/7? If you think that they carry their fathers' surnames does that prove the fathers to ne immortal? Do elaborate, I don't follow! I don't get the logi there! You, yourself carry your father's surname aren't you? Or are you a bastard child whose mother was rescued from "Prostituton"?? Ignorance is fatal!
anon 8/5/2009 9:36:19 AM
As much as people have turned lobola into business the sole purpose for it was not to buy a woman but to create a relationship between two families. The writer forgets that in the olden days even for white people the duties of women included cooking, cleaning and child-bearing let alone that african culture still practises that. What about other cultures who do not practise lobola who marry people who are finacially secured, is that not prostitution? Would you marry someone who is working @ shoprite as packer don't think so. The way i see it the article is more about african women being prostitutes.
KINGLEONIDUS 8/26/2009 1:35:15 PM
I ALWAYZ NU THIS LOBOLLA THING IS A SCAM.....NO TAX PAYED.....TODAY WE USE MONEY TO BUY NOT COWS....POOR AND DISADVANTAGED FAMILIES TRYING TO ENRICH THEMSELVES USING THE DAUGHTER.....NO SHAME AT ALL
KINGLEONIDUS MET N RETURN 8/26/2009 1:42:35 PM
LOOK AT YOUR PRESIDENT(PPL 4RM SA)...JUST LOOK AT ZUMA AND THAT WILL PROVE THAT LOBOLA IS BUYING A PERSON....I DONT CARE BOUT MONEY I JUST DONT BELIEVE IN THE PRINCIPLE....THAT IS WHAT MAKES WONDER WHY IT WASNT ABOLISHED.......WHEN IS SARS GONNA CREATE AN ACT TOWARDS LOBOLLA???
The Writer 11/3/2009 2:07:09 AM
Why are so many getting hot under the collar? The writer is right... this lobola bs is real bs. It's all about money for the oldman who raised his own daughter... shame. Why should one be compensated for raising one's child. If you have a daughter are you raising her so that you can make some money some day? Do you realize that it is excatly because of this mentality that girls will end up marrying men they don't love... but maybe only because they are rich and can afford the lobola. Please, people, grow up.
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