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Anti same-sex marriage?

Although we are the fifth country in the world to allow legal same-sex marriages, some people still oppose it. Why?

In some ways, South Africa is way ahead of the region when it comes to the rights of same sex couples. South Africa is the fifth country in the world, and the first in Africa, to allow legal same-sex marriages. The signature of former deputy president Phumzile Mlamblo-Ngcuka on 30 December 2005 passed the Civil Union Bill into law following a historic vote in Parliament on 14 November 2005.

With the new law, South Africa joined the elite group of progressive democracies legalising same-sex marriage: the Netherlands, which passed the law in 2001, Belgium (2003), Canada (2005) and Spain (2005).

So why then do people like Rhema International Church Pastor Ray McCauley, and many others like him in the country, still oppose to gay relationships?
 
Conservatism as a political movement and a way of life, needs to come to grips with the reality of gay relationships in precisely the same way it came to grips with its errors regarding to racial segregation: own up to its mistake, and simply expand its moral boundaries to include gays and gay marriage.

Most older conservatives now acknowledge that they once erred in "keeping blacks in their place." They should make the same acknowledgement for gays and their right to marry, and live happy, open and contented lives in each other’s arms, without fear or discrimination.

There are those who want to prove that homosexuality is a “deviant lifestyle” and are anxious to show that the rights demands are lopsided to the number of demanders, as though the right to fair treatment depended on a head count.

More than half of all people in South Africa oppose gays, even though three-fourths are otherwise supportive of gay rights in theory. Why all the passion and confusion?

There is a lot of misunderstanding about homosexuality, as well as flawed assumptions that gay people enjoy the same civil rights protections as everyone else. There are also many stereotypes about gay relationships. 

The stereotype has it that gays are promiscuous, unable to form lasting relationships, and the relationships that do form are shallow and uncommitted. However, just like in straight society, where such casual relationships also exist, they are a small minority, existing primarily among the young. Indeed, one of the most frequent complaints of older gay men is that it is almost impossible to find quality single men to get into a relationship with, because they’re already all "taken"!

If you attend any gay event, such as a Gay Pride festival, you will find this to be true. As gays age and mature, just like their straight cohorts, they begin to appreciate and find their way into long-term committed relationships.

The values that such gay couples exhibit in their daily lives are often impossible to differentiate from those of their straight neighbours. They’re loyal to their mates, are monogamous, and devoted partners. They value and participate in family life, are committed to making their neighbourhoods and communities safer and better places to live, and honour and abide by the law.

Many make valuable contributions to their communities, serving on school boards, volunteering in community charities, and trying to be good citizens. In doing so, they take full advantage of their relationship to make not only their own lives better, but those of their neighbours as well.

So, having established the value of gay marriage, why are people so opposed to it? Many people actually believe that gays could simply choose to be heterosexual if they wished. However, the reality is that very few have a choice - any more than very few heterosexuals could choose which sex to find themselves attracted to.

Additionally, many people continue to believe right-wing religious propaganda that homosexuality is about nothing but sex, considering it to be merely a sexual misrepresentation. In reality, homosexuality is multidimensional, and is much more about love and affection. And this is what gay relationships are based on - mutual attraction, love and affection.

Sex, in a committed gay relationship, is a means of expressing that love, just the same as it is for heterosexuals. Being gay is much more profound than simply a sexual relationship; being gay is part of that person’s core identity, and goes right the very centre of his being.

It’s like being black in a society of whites, or a blonde European in a nation of black-haired Asians. Yes, being gay is just that profound to the person who is. This is something that few heterosexuals can understand unless they are part of a minority themselves.

One of the most transformative social movements over our lifetime has been the battle for gay rights. The key to its great success has been the grass-roots phenomenon of exploding stereotypes by simply saying, "Yes, I am." Each time the woman at the next desk or the guy down the street lets it be known that he or she is gay; it takes another brick out of the wall of division.

I have heard many say that things like “Marriage is a sacred institution,” “making love to another man betrays everything that is masculine,”  “the thought of gay sex is repulsive,” and “they might recruit.”

The idea that marriage is a sacred institution assumes that the state has the responsibility to "sanctify" marriages - a fundamentally religious idea. Here we’re dealing with people trying to enforce their religious doctrines on someone else, but by doing it through weakening the separation of church and state, by undermining the Bill of Rights. Not that there’s anything new about this, of course.

However, the attempt itself runs against the grain of everything - one does not truly have freedom of religion if one does not have the right to freedom from religion as well. It would seem to me that anyone who feels that the sanctity of their marriage is threatened by a gay couple down the street having the right to marry is mighty insecure about their religion and their marriage anyway.

“Making love to another man betrays everything that is masculine.” Well, I’ve known plenty of very masculine gay men, including champion rugby players and biker types, who, if you suggested that they were fairies, would likely rip your head off and hand it to you.

There was a long-honoured tradition of gay relationships among the tough and macho cowboys of the Old West, and many diaries still exist detailing their loving and tender relationships out on the range, and the many sacrifices they made for each other. Plenty of masculine, respected movie stars are gay. A society that devalues love, devalues that upon which civilised society itself is based - love and commitment.

So is this something straight men should fear from gay men? The vast majority of gay men prefer sex in the same emotional setting most of you do - as a part of the expression of mutual love and affection.

Oliver Meth is a researcher at the University of KwaZulu Natal Centre for Civil Society. This article is part of the Gender Links Opinion and Commentary Service.

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Chris dB 11/10/2009 10:31:58 AM
I support it.. of course... since I'm one of the gay men who got married to another man. I've found society, family, friends and colleagues to be very accepting.
Why shouldn't we have the same right to happiness (and / or suffering as some straight married men would say!)
TC 11/10/2009 10:33:43 AM
it not natural and according to most people's religion it is wrong
Kyle Pillai 11/10/2009 10:34:27 AM
Hey Oliver, Well Said.
fraud 11/10/2009 10:36:56 AM
No one has a right to descriminate against another person. I don't hate gays, but as a Christian, i'm against the practice. God loves us all equally (straight or gay). But God also loves a rapist and a murderer equally, but that does not necessarily mean God approves of the lifestyle. If you're not a Christian, then obviously God and His stance on the issue is irrelevant to you. But to those who are claim to be Christians, you know exactly where Gods stands with regards to homosexuality. Not saying straight people are angels - they're not! But at this moment we're addressing the topic of this article.
Michael du Toit 11/10/2009 10:45:50 AM
Once again race is brought into this some way or forms. What does racial segregation got to do with gays and gay marriages. It is not normal and should not be allowed. Man and Woman were greated for a reason.

I have gay friends and even my wifes sister is lesbian. I accept it but do not agree with it in principle.
John 11/10/2009 10:51:07 AM
Christians once again go and read your bible! Those are without sin cast the first stone...I am born gay and will die gay. See you in the afterlife...
moriba motubatse 11/10/2009 10:54:33 AM
There will be never same-sex marriages in Limpopo. We'll continue to promote initiation schools in that province so that we have future responsible men and women, husbands and wives and not what we are seeing this days. Are these gays and lesbians a product of same sex marriages? What is wrong with this western-socialised societies?
anti-thesist 11/10/2009 11:01:31 AM
If we Got rid of RELIGION then these Backward idea would have been abandoned long ago, these predujices are a reslut of following teachings that are over 1000 years old.
CTguy 11/10/2009 11:03:26 AM
I don't understand what this discussion is about – it's their life and it's between two consenting adults. People need to learn to MIND their own business and stay out of other people's lives. Gay couples should be allowed the same rights as heterosexual couples... call it marriage or whatever you want! Let the topic be please... and grow up!!!
Cheeky 11/10/2009 11:05:27 AM
Perhaps gay people should start following the examples of heterosexual role models like Joost and Amor or Pastor Ray and his lovely second wife? Hahhahahah
aajj 11/10/2009 11:11:29 AM
@ John - we are all born sinners, and we all have different sins that afflict us. Some get mad and act out on people. Some lie all the time. Some are sexually licentious and some have sexual feelings for the same sex. As a Christian I veiw all of the above as sins and can't approve any of them. That doesn't mean I don't have friends that does some of the above and I myself doing these sins, but I do strugle against it. Not all of us have the same battles on this earth.
Billy 11/10/2009 11:20:12 AM
I am gay and very proud of it, my partner and I are married and extremely happy, and surely that is what counts.
Margaret @ John 11/10/2009 11:24:03 AM
You need to look at the WHOLE context of your quote about "He who is without sin, etc". Jesus Christ continued by saying to the woman concerned "SIN NO MORE". From 1 Corinthians 6 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." And don't just assume that you can indulge gay tendencies at will, because you assume that everyone else can. Sexual intercourse was created by God to turn a man and a woman into "one flesh" for life. There is no such thing as recreational sex, sowing wild oats, testing the field, etc. There is "becoming one flesh" followed either by faithfulness or adultery. You are born with an inherited sinful nature as are all of us. In your case it shows in your thinking you are gay. Other have a tendency to anger which can even lead to murder. Others have "sharp" tongues. The list goes on, but these are ALL sins, and all have to be repented of.
@moriba 11/10/2009 11:24:42 AM
What exactly is a responsible husband? In a average black household it is the norm to have a wife and then several mistresses. I really feel sorry for a gay male or female in this country. Unfortunately there are children that commit suicide because of societies that cast stones. You really live in a dream world if you thing that initiation schools can suppress homosexual feelings. I just wonder if you also so cruel in your comments towards Caster. She was born that way. Or is she an exception on the rule. This is why gay marriages will never be excepted in this country some people still live in the dark ages.
jhet 11/10/2009 11:26:52 AM
For f*** sakes people... WHO CARES!!! There are penguins to be saved and melting ice to worry about!!
Johan 11/10/2009 11:27:40 AM
FYI - same sex marriage law was passed in Germany in 2001
sam 11/10/2009 11:35:04 AM
As far as I know the Bill of Rights has entrenched your right to be gay. I have no problem with that. I would encourage all people to support the bill of rights as it gives them their right to their religion as well. Don’t let your religious beliefs or your gay beliefs be Forced onto others. I do however think that the nature of humans encourages the reproduction of our species and the open encouragement of gay associations with discourage this nature, which might lead to the destruction of Humans.
aajj 11/10/2009 11:36:20 AM
@anti-thesist - ask people that lived in the times of Stalin and Mao Zedong how fun that concept is in reality.
Swazi 11/10/2009 11:38:41 AM
Who writes this tripe. You can impossibly confuse political conservatism with social or moral conservatism, although many people may share those values. The reality is that the majority of people oppose gay marriages, rightly or wrongly, and for many reasons. Some religious, some culture, some homophobic.
Pangea 11/10/2009 11:41:43 AM
The reason why people have issues with gay relationships is one they still adhere to a outdated practice called religion and secondly they are insecure regarding their own sexual identity. What two consenting adults do behind closed doors is actually nobody else's business.
Fabuman 11/10/2009 11:44:42 AM
@fraud - God says that all sins are the same. I guarantee you that you lie more often than I have sex with another man....

@Michael du Toit - I feel SO much better now that you accept me... Quite frankly I feel straight relationships are wrong and should not be allowed. We can recreate in labs.

@moriba - You will most likely not have same-sex mariages in Limpopo: it too primitive. Possibly thanks to all the initiation schools...?

@aajj - I am glad you think you were born a sinner. I was born perfect. How dare you judge the most perdfect all creations - a new born baby?!?!?
Anne S 11/10/2009 11:46:25 AM
If course these ungodly people will support this sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS IS AGAINST NATURE AND IF YOU ARE LIKE THIS YOU ARE W R O N G!!! Why do we need to lower our moral standards to make room for these deviant people? How will we populate our future with this RUBBISH??????
colin 11/10/2009 11:47:39 AM
Oh dear..here we go again..I'm a gay man, and i have no interest in getting married, i always thought it to be a institution for hopeless romantics and girls who had fantasies about their perfect wedding...but i tend to agree when two people who love each other conditionally should have the right to choose....this is the crux of the matter..the RIGHT to CHOOSE...and please Mr Moriba Motubatse, who gives you the right to say that same sex marraiges will no be allowed in Limpopo?...it is part of south africa, not some independent state! It's against the law to discriminate! But like a true non-christian, i will forgive you, for you have really lost all sense of humanity and compassion..shame on you BIGOT
Peter @ jhet 11/10/2009 11:50:33 AM
jhet f*ck the ugly penguins. These people are freaks and by shifting the focus to the Green Peace Movement will not make this any less of a SIN.
The M 11/10/2009 11:51:37 AM
Ah siestog - comparing blacks and gays - hell, where do you see a comparison. To oppress a human for it skin colour is wrong, and to allow gays is also wrong. Both are sins and not human. It is very clear by just looking at nature that men and woman are suppose to have sexual intercourse - it is also very clear that gays cannot have normal intercourse, anal not being normal. And how does lesbians have sex - they cannot have intercourse at all. So they just have foreplay and are totally wrong if they ever think they have any intercourse. Sticking something artificial into yourselve or someone else in NOT sex. Masturbation of yourselve or someone else is Not intercourse - thus Not SEX....shame if they only know what they were missing. Oppressing blacks = wrong. Saying gays are OK = wrong. Like all sinners you have to love them, accept them, but they only fool themselves if they think there marriage is worth the paper it is printed on. And our goverment to allow this - shows you how desperate they are for votes....approving anything to not go against any voters....not even prosecuting their own who steals from the poor - sies man - stand up for what is right even if some people dont like it. Human rights - we live in a country where the criminals have more rights than the rest. Thats why everyone only look out for themselves. Come now goverment stand up for what is right - not for what is right to get some votes. Normally a law like this one for gays get passed because 60% of the lawmakers are gay themselves - so I live in sin but if I or someone else can just pass a law now it is correct - shame what a misconception. If you legalize prostitision is will all of a sudden be morrally acceptable - if you approve the use of dagga is will be now acceptable -grow up people - just because there is a law for it - it doesnt mean it is OK - just somebody somewhere in geverment wanting a whore for christmas and not having to worry he will be caught with his pant on his knees.
adam 11/10/2009 11:52:03 AM
some of these responses are a bit disheartening. what right do you have to dictate whom can marry whom - when it is a fact that it won't affect you in any way whatsoever? This is an issue of self-determination and civil rights, not of morality. Sexual orientation is as innate as race, though it isn't visible. But that doesn't mean it isn't a class just as worthy of protection.
chez@Margaret 11/10/2009 11:53:55 AM
Thats YOUR God and YOUR bible - YOU go to hell. In MY religion there is no hell - so wah!!
Comeau 11/10/2009 11:55:41 AM
I completely agree with the author of the article.

Whether or not someone may feel comfortable with gay marriage is not the issue. The issue is that the majority of straight people feel that they have the right to impose their religious beliefs on others and dictate how they may run their lives. What gives me the right to tell someone else who they may have a committed relationship with?

The fact of the matter is that homosexuality is a concept that is hard for heterosexual people to understand. They feel that gay people can simply choose who they are attracted to, or that gay people are attracted to *all* people of their sex. Its silly little misconceptions like this that is the basis for the ignorance that is so rampant in our society. Whether or not gay marriage is legal, gay people have always been here and will always be here to stay. Ignoring the problem won’t make it go away.

Worse, however, is the way in which the church condemns homosexuality. I grew up in a fairly liberal Christian home, went to a Christian school for my entire schooling career, and of course went to church during that time too. All the while I had to listen to lectures as to why I'm evil and how I will be going to hell when my day of judgement arrives. Of course, with this knowledge in mind I was in denial for a good number of years, but there was no mistaking the fact that guys were who I was attracted to. As much as I tried, I could simply not develop an attraction to girls.

Eventually - thankfully - I came to the realisation that according to Christianity none of us are perfect and that absolutely no one has the right stand up and condemn others for apparent sin if they aren't perfect themselves. Whether or not homosexuality is a sin isn't the issue Christians should be dealing with, as regardless of what they may like to think, people are born gay. I laugh in the face of anyone who tries to convince me otherwise. Considering the Bible says that we are all born into sin, doesn't that place your average gay person on the same level as any other Christian out there? As much as we may try, once again - according the Bible - we will all continue to sin. Through God's grace we are saved. If we stop selectively interpreting the Bible and read it as a whole, according to God himself the only way to Heaven is through Him and Him alone. It is *impossible* to purge ourselves of all sin. It would be naive to think otherwise. All sin is equal - yet again according to the Bible - so this mentality of homosexuality being a “bigger sin” than a simple white lie is a sin in itself.

No one is perfect, and the day Christians realise that and start focusing on their own relationships with God instead of judging, this world will be a much better place. I didn’t ask for this, but allowing it to get in the way of my relationship with God is exactly what Christians are encouraging. Stop shunning and take the splinter out of your own eyes.
S P 11/10/2009 11:59:29 AM
IF WE PROMOTE THIS IDEA SAME SEX MARRIAGE, THEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN FUTURE, WHO WILL HAVE CHILDREN, A NUT AND BOLT IS MADE FOR PURPOSE SO ALSO A MAN AND WOMEN. WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE EVERY THING GOES. GOOD HAS BECOME BAD AND BAD HAS BECOME GOOD.
The M 11/10/2009 11:59:35 AM
Hi John - yes I might see you in the afterlife but you will go to heavan with the sin of being gay in your life - even if you have accepted Jesus. So yes you might make it to heaven - but being gay is a sin and YOU have to live with the knowledge everyday that when you are committing a sin everytime you are "homo". You all say you are gay - and you are but if I'm born a murderer and I will die a murderer does this mean it is not sin - shame I was born to sheat on my wife to not be faithful- I'm a man - have to sleep around - STILL SIN EVEN IF YOU ARE BORN THIS WAY......SIN....SLEEP ON THIS....see you in the afterlife where Jesus will nicely and lovingly explain to you how wrong you where and then we will live forever....amen.
Saamprater 11/10/2009 12:04:14 PM
Simple you idiot. The One who instituted the act of marriage said that marriage is to be between A man and A woman. Simple.

If you insist on living with a man or a woman, then do so, but don't defile a holy institution put in place by God himself and then fool yourself by thinking whatever you do can cast aside Gods Word.
John 11/10/2009 12:06:48 PM
Anne, you're a sad sad human. Your moral standards are moronic standards. And you're as backwards as your thinking.

A few hundred years ago scientists were thought of the same way by Christians as the gays are now. Why? Because majority of Christians just loving finding someone to hate and something to rant about to make themselves feel better about the sins they do.

All of you against gay marriage need to come back from the 18th century and realize there are things far less 'moral' than gay sex... The consumption of alcohol and cigarettes even cause more harm in society than someone who prefers someone of the same gender.

Wake up and stop being so closed minded due to what your little book of lies written by bigots say.
riaan 11/10/2009 12:07:31 PM
Question : Why does gay couples then have a "male" and a "female" man? If one was born gay, should gay couples not have "male" and "male", why imitate the heterosexuals?
Realist 11/10/2009 12:11:29 PM
The day homosexuals and those for homosexuality can prove and convince us that there is any good to be found in it even in the minutest form is the day we should all start supporting it. Till then it remains a dangerous mental disease unable to produce on its own and surviving only through the infection of the weak and the hypocritcally open-minded
Billy 11/10/2009 12:11:55 PM
@ Anne S.....look whos is being unGodly, it is very unGodly to judge others...practice what you preach.
Ray 11/10/2009 12:13:45 PM
Grow up move on and be the best person you can be and the best you can be with who ever your with. Learn to accept others and bend rather than break. Why are you so upset about other peoples lives. If they are not even in yours. Be the best in yours and hope for the best in others.
sAge 11/10/2009 12:15:54 PM
Why is it that so many homophobes believe that if we accept homosexuality there is the real threat that all future heterosexuals will turn gay? Anne S, are you planning on "turning" gay?
aajj @ Faubman 11/10/2009 12:16:13 PM
Wow that would be a first - you never did anything wrong? I didn't judge anybody - stop being so dramatic. I just had a baby 6 months ago and I know this baby will sin in his life and will sometimes make me sad but I'm full of joy that I can teach him that Jesus has already paid the price for his sins as he did for mine. If you think babies aer such perfect creations why say straight relationships are wrong? Where did you think babies came from?
Bzet 11/10/2009 12:19:32 PM
@Anne - of course you are GOD you decide whats right and wrong for other ppl, its morons like you that are scared of anything different from the "usual" that make other ppl's lives a living hell.
Who gave you the authority to decide for other ppl. Is it the same GOD that created and loves gay ppl
Fabuman 11/10/2009 12:23:26 PM
Evolution is when you take the best genes from 2 members of the same species and combine it to creat offspring. Surely nature cannot continue to improve and improve. Somewhere you have to reach the top of the gene pool, hence being the cream of the crop - nature can simply imrpve no more. That is, my dear friends, where homosexuality comes in. Thank you very much.
Muslim 11/10/2009 12:23:59 PM
While it may be “acceptable” by some in the respective race groupings, according to the Islamic faith, it's undoubtedly and categorically clear that same-sex relationships and marriages are totally prohibited.


No individual “Muslim” or group irrespective of the logic and reasoning lodged to portray a strong case will change the Islamic ruling. Incidentally, a married couple of the opposite sexes conform to a natural way of living. Perhaps these people have forgotten that they were born from a relationship between a male and female. God has precisely created the male and female for procreation – hence the progeny of Adam and Eve.


One should closely study the historical facts about the people of Lot who indulged in this heinous crime whereby God Almighty thereafter destroyed these people. Perhaps the Aids pandemic is one of the many destructive signs apart from the natural disasters world over.


Not surprisingly many people are afraid to speak out against these people fearing an outrage and outburst from the gay and lesbian groups. How very sad and a shame that people are afraid to speak out against such strange behaviour.
@ Anne S 11/10/2009 12:25:16 PM
Who are you to say what is against nature and what is wrong???? Who defines moral standards????? Just because you do not understand something does not make it wrong. What have I ever done to you, your family or society in general that gives you the right to call me rubbish??????
CTheB 11/10/2009 12:26:29 PM
In my experience, most people who're anti-homosexuality are that because their chosen religion dictates that they be that. They'll often claim that it's not natural, willfully ignoring the fact that humans are not the only animal to have same-sex couplings. If their chosen deity created other creatures for whom the phenomenon occurs and about which they're not trying to do anything, why should humans be any different?

Nevertheless, I do find myself agreeing with the position taken by a gay person in the USA. Marriage is a religious institution. It is distinct from a civil union (though not in any legal way). Just because religious people such as the Christians have at times usurped the practices of others is no reason to go around taking theirs. I haven't looked at the bill, but its name suggests that it is not in fact about gay marriages, but about gay civil unions. The religious people have no place attempting to prevent a pair of consenting adults entering into a civil union.
SB 11/10/2009 12:28:28 PM
I agree with jhet, who actually gives a continental. Live and let live and concentrate on the real problems we have...
aajj CTheB 11/10/2009 12:46:18 PM
We don't choose to ignore that - the whole world is suffering since the fall because the sin of Man. The World that once was perfect is far from it now, it is declining and will one day end.
I also agree with the second part of your arguement don't sanctify something with a religion you know doesn't endorse what you want to sanctify in the first place. Civil union is different in this regard.
Neville 11/10/2009 12:47:59 PM
Hi all there homofobes ixe Riaan and Susan. If I dont get it worng the whole world is screwed because of the heterosexuals running it. Oh and i am gay and there is no man and woman in my relationship. We both men and I will oike you to come say it to my face then we will see who is the woman. Susan most people that molest and rape are straight men so please take the woods out your eye before you judge all others cause only he can judge. All the religions that control and kill others prohibit it ie christains and muslim etc. Arent you the people that are killing each other for oil? Ja lets judge other. What is trange behaviour is to kill a woman that was raped becuase of your religion so Mr Muslim you and your fellow Chrictian murderers stop being such Hipoctits
Nic 11/10/2009 12:49:51 PM
I am so sad to see the absolute venom spewed by some gays against Christianity, classifying it as outdated and intollerant.
Will those who are propogating in these responses with statements like we all sin therefore homosexuality is okay condone beastiality. I read an article a while ago where somebody asked the question. What is worse, to kill an animal or to love it. They also cliamed that the animal is adult and responds in free will. Just the start of another slippery slide. At the end of the day, I should be able to use hard drugs because who are Christians or government to tell me that it is wrong? Why not get drunk as long as I don't drive or beat somebody up. Who is God to prescribe to me on the matter? We are living in a world where criminals are free and the previously free are behind bars, and we are living in a world where right has become wrong and wrong has become right. I am a Christian who is not ignorant but fully convinced and in the know of what Scripture teaches in this regard, but I will not even try to enforce my Biblical opinions onto gay people. All I will do is to pray for you that the Spirit of God will draw you and convince you of who God is and what His standards are. Like many of you I was in exactly the same position, God - impossible, Bible - wrong, lifestyl - my choice, but then I discovered that Christianity is not for idiots and that all God's laws are actually for our own good. When God says, thou shalt not kill, is He wrong, when He says that we shall not commit adultry - is He trying to be a spoil sport? and when He says that man was made for women and women for man and that homosexuality and beastiality are wrong abnormal practices - I guess He is right again. Forget about my God, I cannot force you to believe, but answer one little question, if homosexuality became the dominant trend, where will scoiety be in a few hundred years. History is in our hands and cause will always have affect.
Doug 11/10/2009 12:51:52 PM
What a rediculous notion, that all people must approve a lifestyle choice because an ultra-liberal government does?!? The simple fact remains, while homosexuality may be acceptable to a minority, the majority do not agree or support it. You may choose to be a homosexual, but expecting other people to approve your choice is unrealistic. What you do in the privacy of your home is one thing, expecting others to approve is another.
rod c 11/10/2009 12:55:20 PM
I have gay for my whole life(49 yrs), and still non't know what the fuss is about....if you don't accept gay people...then stay out of their bedrooms, and bizzy yourself with what is realy going on in your bedrooms!!! shame on you!!! your lives are probibly so empty that you need to fill them with others!!!!
Flip 11/10/2009 1:07:21 PM
marriage as per consitution is about a legal contract and joint estate. It does not need the support of a particular religous group.2 People deciding to join there assets and liabilities on earth. How you see marraige, is really up to you. Even though I'm Christian, I myself am very wary to "get married" and legally join assets and liabilities, having a joint estate etc. Would rather be in a committed, loving relationship. Anyone, regardless for their reasons, should have the right to choose to have a joint estate by law and benefit from each other's wordly possessions. Just a thought... As for gay practices, I won't comment. As far as the legal right is concerned, we all should be free to choose.
Karen Walker 11/10/2009 1:13:10 PM
"Don't these people know what will happen to the fall line without homo's!?!?"
fraud 11/10/2009 1:15:35 PM
@Fabuman....you are 100% correct! All sins are the same! The only difference is that my sins have not become a lifestyle. When I commit those sins, I'm aware that I did something wrong. I then ask for forgiveness and TRY to repent. Can you say the same about your sin(s)? Do you even acknowledge it as a sin?
Anne S 11/10/2009 1:16:09 PM
If course THIS IS NOT NATURAL!!!!!!!!! Go to the animal kingdom and see how many species survived on mating with same sex partners!!! Goodness you people are SINful and Stupid. Where in your life can you justify your behaviour? That's why most Gays are always on anti depressants and wants to commit suicide because deep in themselves they know that they are WRONG and against everything that is pure and NATURAL. Please get some conviction and in the process get some brains!!!!!!!
Yucca 11/10/2009 1:20:29 PM
Actually mankind does not need more people so gay is ok. It only means that less reproduce and less impact on the environment and less poor lol.
fatti 11/10/2009 1:21:05 PM
to the religious dudes and dudettes:why do you assume,that allowing gay ppl 2 choose as you do,suddenly puts the future of mankind @ risk?when you talk about "procreation" etc. and gays being a threat to the future of the human race,seriously,where do you come up with this?oh,and "its against nature"?is this the same nature where all sorts of animals boink it out even amongst the same sexes?and to continuosly quote the bible-the same bible that in one part says slavery is acceptable.also makes mention of the one dude,offering his daughter 2 be raped,so the townsfolk wont rape the "angels"?or some such.i seriously ask,how do you expect a person, "graced" with the ability of reason&deduction to accept the massive contradictions in a book,that is pretty well known to have been edited/translated/used etc. for the purposes of conquering?im being serious,how do you as a person who is in awe of God,take the word of a book,that seeks to set God on the same par as humans?a jealous God?a God who is fallibe enough to experience human emotions?a God who created us in his image,but failed 2 "remove" the "BIG SINS" that will guarantee a uninterrupted trip to "hell"?but conveniently masks that in "choice"?what?same bible thats used 2 justify monogamy,again,conveniently ignoring all the characters who had several wives?and now you seek to use this same book to justify why homosexuals should be persecuted.and ure surprised we're laughing at you?seriously if any of u can answer without the usual "just because" or"because the bible says its so".gay folk should stop seeking to get religious approval,but rather be allowed to enjoy the same legal/civil benefits of a union,outside of the label of "marriage".@theM,michaeldutoit:its not about comparing blacks&gays,its about how both used the same tenets to carry out their discrimination.blacks were discriminated against,largely,under the religious banner-make ppl believe God said its so-ja we all know how well that worked out.
S 11/10/2009 1:33:15 PM
@TC, fraud, Michael du Toit, moriba motubatse, aajj, sam, Anne S (particularly), Peter, The M, S P, riaan, Realist, Muslim, Nic and Doug - F*ck all of you :)
Klipkop 11/10/2009 1:40:02 PM
I see a bunch of people quote the fairy tales in the bible when they comment. So tell me, why did god create gays "in his image" if he is so against it? Does that mean god is gay curious? He does not have a wife, hmm, makes me wonder about his orientation.
Anne @ S 11/10/2009 1:44:54 PM
Actually I'm wasting my time here. These people will continuo their SINful lifestyle get AIDS and die. So it's not F me it's F yourself!!
fraud 11/10/2009 1:53:58 PM
@S....typical. That's what you guys want to do to everything....I mean everyone....
S @ Anne 11/10/2009 1:55:48 PM
You really seem to relish the thought of people getting AIDS and dying. Model citizen you are!
S @ Anne 11/10/2009 1:58:18 PM
PS - you're wasting your time by breathing - please stop.
Andrew 11/10/2009 2:33:57 PM
When you look at the 1970 or somewhere there the most resistance to the gay and lesbian movement were the Christians and it remains so to this day. What we need to do is understand that this has been going on ever since Christianity and other religions were formed. Im not going to take a stance on where being gay or not os wrong or right but I am interested in the what the scientific evidence regarding homsexuality is.

To my amazement I find that scientists and politicians were either threatened or ridiculed if they had found or were in opposed opinion that homosexuality was not just acceptable but natural. It is quite clear that during presidential and state campaigns, contestants found themselves in advantaguoes positions if their opinions were positive towards homosexuality. Even more interesting was the subsequent studies compiled by Dr. Simon LeVay, Bailey and Pillard as well as other scientists is that the research shows that there was no basis to claim homosexuality was what is was in the media or by those promoting it. It takes a lot of research to unearth these findings.

Christians who make nasty statements about homosexuals are running the gauntlet destined for failure. Those who insult religion, particularly Christianity regarding what they understand to be the main aim of religion - to condemn sinners know absolutely nothing about what they profess to know. Jesus did not an any way condemn anyone except the Pharasees. It was the people themselves that were convicted in their hearts when they came into contact with Jesus.

This is not about rights or progressive thinking, its about do you love your neighbour???
claren 11/10/2009 2:55:55 PM
The creation of evil and sin is here and it's not about religion / biblical teachings, but about how you feel about something, which differs from your values.

Everyone who has posted here in the positive or negative have sinned. Look at the hurt created both ways to gays and religious people, by comments made, slander directed to individuals.

WHY ?

If we cannot tolerate the view-point of another person, with different ideas and thoughts to ourselves, we will always hate each other.

It's about how you feel towards yourself, that you feel towards others. You hate yourself, you will hate things about other people. It's not about being gay or straight or being black or white, it's about you. It will always be about you. Do you really give a damn about what anyone else thinks, in particular when they differ from your opinion.
The danger is when the majority decide on the values, the minority will always feel rejected. We live our life based on our own values formed by the majority who agree on those values.
Why must the minority now disagree and force their opinions onto the majority.
We are all animals, but have because of our idea of being based as interlectual placed ourselves as head of all the other animals.
But go back into the jungle and take careful note that those animals who do not run with the majority pack, Do Not Survive.
The question is: Who is the majority and who is the minority ???
aajj @ klipkop 11/10/2009 3:04:13 PM
If you read about the fall of man you'd understand.
Straight & For It 11/10/2009 3:07:45 PM
TC - its not natural? Says who? And if it's not natural then why did your God create gay folk? Because you do realise people are born gay, lets face it who would choose to be gay? Nobody wants to disappoint the people they love most.
And most religions are against it?! Most religions have encouraged or been involved in war for centuries. Actually killing people.

Lastly I'd just like to ask anyone who has a problem with same sex marraige to think long and hard about what their OWN reasons are, not their church or their peers. Because at the end of the day how does someone celebrating LOVE, in whatever shape or form, negatively effect your life?
In other words, why do you care so much?
Beep 11/10/2009 3:24:04 PM
A couple of things. I would like to hear from a dedicated christian who may be gay what his/her opinion is of being gay and christian. The bible seems to be fairly clear on it being a sin. But so is sex before marriage, cursing, blaspheming. I am a christian and I do/or have done all these things. But I know it is wrong. And when I do sin I ask for forgiveness and make a effort not to repeat. (although I probably will). The difference with being gay is you are choosing a sinful lifestyle in which to continue living. It also cannot be argued that being gay is natural. It simply is not. I am no better for my sins than a gay person. However I do except that I sin. Not so with the gay community. And for the record, If you are gay and in a commited relationship I believe you should be afforded the same CIVIL rights as a straight couple.
Fikile 11/10/2009 3:34:21 PM
Gay marriage now there's a contradiction, marriage is a should be reserved for man and woman. Call me homophobic, gays should find their own word that represents their union maybe "Gayriage". cause U are infringing on my rights as a person.
@ Straight & for it 11/10/2009 3:38:13 PM
Thanks for your post, especially the second last sentence. "Because at the end of the day how does someone celebrating LOVE, in whatever shape or form, negatively effect your life". I have another question, how can it be a sin to love somebody?
Straight & for it 11/10/2009 3:51:11 PM
It also scares me how many of the comments here are bigotted and well, just plain discrimative towards others.

And I notice that the people looking down on everyone else (especially the gay folk)the most seem to be the 'Christians' - I am not sure there's a "god" but I do know I don't believe in your god because I question alot of what religion teaches. However, you don't see me picketing outside your church on a Sunday calling you a sinner (in my eyes) because I disagree with you or think your beliefs are ridiculous.. Does it make people feel good or better about themselves when they get to tell other people how wrong they are?
AnnelizeR 11/10/2009 4:36:10 PM
This is a heated debate indeed. My late brother was gay and I accepted him just like he was. He was such a gentleman, kind and always helping! One of my best friends is in a Lesbian relationship for almost 30 years (one mate for 30 years) I am not going to judge anyone! I loved my late brother to pieces and my friend is my friend. So does the fact that my late brother was gay and one of my best friends is Lesbian, mean that I have to reject them and be judgemental. I will certainly not do that. I sin everyday in one way or the other and I have to ask for forgiveness everyday. It is a matter between my Heavenly Father and myself! We carry our own baggage - it is not necessary for others to carry it for us!
The M @ Klipkop 11/10/2009 5:06:39 PM
Ja broer jou naam sê alles - klipkop - ha ha ha. This will be a revelation for all. God did create evil and gave each of us "choice". But the choice is to choose Him or ignore Him. If there was no evil why would you choose Him - no sin around - no heartache, no famine, no lies, no money problems, nothing that you don't want - only in the face of evil can you decide to believe....God could have created a few "robots" that did everything exactly like He wanted....but that is just creating. He made us to think for our selves and to be able too see the "light". Have all of you gays and heterosexials seen the "light", because it doesnt matter at the end of the day who you "bang" as long as you know Jesus. And if you do not belive in "God" you will the day you lay on your sickbed getting ready to DIE.... (oh no am I going to Hell, are all these people maybe correct???) Just make the choice and please do not go to a NG Kerk....they also approve gays and that is against the BIBLE the ONLY word. Do NOT be fooled by pastors and preachers praying that SIN is OK....they will be judged the hardest by God!!!
Daniel 11/10/2009 5:21:25 PM
It is ridiculous
Alet 11/10/2009 6:28:27 PM
If heterosexuals marry just for sex it's very sad, because marriage is much more than that... it's a deep emotional relationship , abkending of of two hearts. The sexual relatioship is secondary. Why do people always think of sex in the first place? That's why so many marriages land on the rocks.
Happily South African 11/10/2009 7:01:52 PM
What ever! There is so much cyberspace being wasted by these idiots who ramble on about their Bible and their God and comparing citizens of this country to rapist and murderers, it's disgusting. The point is: this country has a bill of rights or constitution in which the law is very clear: people may not be discriminated against on the grounds of their race, gender, or sexual preference, thus anyone speaking in such discriminating manners about gay people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and that is the alpha and the omega of the story. Good night and good bye...
TT Dumela 11/11/2009 2:31:40 AM
It very important that we have in our society real responsible men who know how to f'"ack hahaha, as well as identify da difference btwn another man's a-s$ and a woman's p-us$"y. Man u nid 2 respect ur di-ck nd put it in da ryt hole. lol....signing off, i love gay pips it is just that i hate them. Hahaha. I love boobs by da way. Can any1 identify wit me...?
Homephobic 11/11/2009 6:10:58 AM
No matter how it this topic is positioned, it drives away from the sanctity of a family, and its intrinsic structures, there is no "love" in such an exchange, there is the idea of love, which is not defined on principle, what i would love to hear is the defense for the traditional family, understand most religions are very clear as is Christianity, marriage is between man and woman, get over your issues of why that cant be right and move on
Chazz 11/11/2009 8:38:21 AM
There was a bill of rights that was passed. Deal with it. Everyone deserves to be happy. Straight, gay, bi, black, white, indian, coloured. So deal with your sh!t. Really, this story is getting so f$^#%^ old now. Stop throwing stones in a glass house. Let everyone live their lives. There is nothing wrong with being happy and loving someone that you want to spend the rest of your life with. Seems like there are many people that still live in the dark ages.... What really interests me is that, these homofuckenphobic people still make the effort to read the story and give their useless opinion. Get a life! You should rather look at your life before u want to accuse anyone of these so called "sins". Take a look in the mirror. You have mistakes... we all have mistakes. We dont need someone pointing that out to everyone everyday. Just get a life already.
Thomas 11/11/2009 8:45:29 AM
As a Christian I need to hang my head in shame following the bigotted an judgemental comments made here. Christians love to say they "hate the sin but love the sinner." But do we really love others?

Why do we judge so easily without listening? Why are we so intellectually dishonest? Surely you know that virtually every major Christian denomination is debating the position of gays and many have taken an accepting stance worldwide. If we cannot even agree among ourselves as Christians what gives you the right to be so judgemental. Similalry many of the statements on the science of homosexuality simply attest to the ignorance of the authors.

If you want to allow yourself to be guilty of bigotry it is your business, but do not tarnish the reputation of Christianity in the process. No wonder most gay folk do not want to have anything to do with religion!
Anne S 11/11/2009 8:47:57 AM
Go READ YOUR BIBLE and if you don't agree with it convert to a Moslem or other religion that DO accept your sinful behaviour. Christians should unite and NOT ALLOW these people within their midst. We have long enough tolerated these SINful people in our midst and it is TIME that we EXPOSE SIN AS SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! South Africans have become FAR to tolerant of everything. IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lala 11/11/2009 8:50:13 AM
@ Anne S
Your argument is not based on scientific fact. Please take the time to educate yourself and read the folloing articles:
http://www.mambagirl.com/article.asp?artid=3821
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_gay_animal_kingdom
It might open your eyes to a totally different world. One where acceptance of a fellow human being might actually bring peace to your heart, ratehr than it being eaten up by hatred.
Amanda 11/11/2009 9:41:05 AM
They are human beings like everyone and they deserve to be treated equally with respect. For as long as they are happy being in this kind of relationship, I don't see anything wrong. Respecting other fellow citizens rights I think it's what we should do as nation!
Parrish 11/11/2009 9:53:55 AM
Are all straights right wing Christians, and faithful?
Snoopy 11/11/2009 11:25:50 AM
@moriba: Just wanted to let you know that Ive just returned from a weekend in Limpopo having met many many hapilly maried gay men. Seems your initiation schools arent working that well babe.. However.. I really do think you should return to highschool for a basic biology lecture.. Gays and lesbians cant be products of same sex marriages.. Were good but not that good.. Kinda lacking a few vital parts to procreate.. Have a lovely day.. Mwah..
boldly benny 11/11/2009 11:37:03 AM
STOP referring to homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, it is not a choice! Just as straight people cannot explain their attraction to the opposite sex, homosexual people cannot explain their attraction to the same sex!
Stop using religion to bolster your bigoted views. Two of the most religious people I know have a gay son and not only do they love, adore and support him. They love, support and adore his boyfriend!
These comments make me embarrassed and I shudder at what our future holds if this is the kind of intolerance we have in our country.
Oh and get a dictionary, at least learn how to spell before you put your close-minded, intolerant views in a public forum!
Anne S @ boldly benny 11/11/2009 12:04:34 PM
A spellchecker comes with MS Word but dealing with the sort of people on this forum it don't require to go to all the trouble. Spelling mistakes is N O T H I N G but living the way you do IS!!!!!!!!! It is a C H O I C E!!! People choose to lie, they choose to kill they choose to get AIDS. Evaporate from this site please. And no I will NOT get upset with the ugly remarks.
boldly benny @ Anne S 11/11/2009 12:15:29 PM
"People choose to lie, they choose to kill they choose to get AIDS." That's interesting! Just to clarify do women, children or men who are raped choose to get AIDS?
1&0 !0&0 !1&1 11/11/2009 12:19:06 PM
blah blah blah...
2 the gay ouks, why do you think pu$$y were designed in the bigger scheme of things.
2 the gay chicks, why do you think d!ck were designed in the bigger scheme of things.
Humans have become so self-centred that the world now needs to revolve around us.
What is right is what we want it to be.
Anne S @ boldly idiot 11/11/2009 12:30:33 PM
No but in your case you CHOOSE AIDS bean counter.
Mich @ Anne S & The M 11/11/2009 1:23:16 PM
As a Christian I am appalled by the lack of compassion for others. Anne S, you should be ashamed of your comments. Please do not speak on behalf of Christians – you are an embarrassment to us all. I believe most gay people will tell you that it is not a lifestyle choice. You either are gay or you are not. If it was a choice, don’t you think everybody would choose an easier and more “acceptable” lifestyle.

@ The M – it seems like you have been “studying” the intercourse techniques of gay people. Is there something else that you want to share with the group…the word closet springs to mind.
John 11/11/2009 1:29:27 PM
Really Anne, you make me laugh; And feel quite ashamed to share the same god-fearing species as you.

I just want to know, do you CHOOSE to be thick, archaic, brainwashed and bigotous? Because somehow that happened. Maybe you should "CHOOSE" to gain some intelligence and move on from fairy tales dictating how you live.

You're a disgusting human being. And even if there were a God, I'm pretty sure you'd be really low down on his list of people he likes.

Try make some friends outside of your church group, people with real lessons of life and values, not ones passed down through archaic thinking.

No, homosexuality is not a choice and saying it is just shows how ignorant one is. Like anyone would choose to be mocked and ridiculed by a God-fearing bigot society. Don't be stupid.

Anne, even the most devout Christians would rather have you gone from their religion than spreading your hateful, ignorant garbage.
Gay rights Activist 11/11/2009 1:40:31 PM
I am a straight man and I will support gay rights till the day that I die. I'm so sick and tired of these idiotic conservative christians forcing their idiotic conservative opinions on the small minority. Where do the lot of you get off by telling us how to live our lives? If it's not about abortions, it's about gay marriage. Everyone has the right to choose. If some of you say that gay marriage will be the end of the human race then I say hooray. We have an overpopulation problem and the world could definitely do with less morons of your caliber. And if some of you say that all gays will burn eternally in hell then I have this to say, I deny the spirit of the holy ghost. There, I'd rather be having a good time in hell with the gay people than be surrounded by the likes of you lot. Thank tofu I don't believe in silly man made religions that promote bigotry and self-righteousness like you. Oh Anne, I hope you will one day realize how silly you really are you bible bashing homophobe.
Adam1 11/11/2009 1:48:02 PM
Mother Nature has restored balance to this world. Yes "straight" couples are there to maintain population growth, but I believe "gay" people are born into this world to prevent overpopulation (which is currently the result of this worlds rapid depletion of natural resources, spread of diseases and global warming to mention a few) and bring about balance. By nature, human beings are capable of horrific destruction e.g. look at the world wars and "religious" wars, all for the sake of stroking their egos and expanding their one-track minded empires.

To all those intolerable folks out there, realise for yourselves & teach your kids to respect others who have different views on life, be it preference on religion, race or sexual orientation etc. You may not have to agree with others, at least have the common decency to respect them for who they are. I'm sure by incorporating this train of thought into your lives, this world WILL be a better place for all of us and future generations.
boldly benny @ Anne S 11/11/2009 2:41:03 PM
Oh dear Anne S, you're not even making sense now. How on earth do I choose AIDS? Oh and was 'bean counter' an attempt to insult me?
Sharon 11/11/2009 2:41:24 PM
Sharon@Anne,
Oh my word....i cannot believe how stupid you are and sound!!! Why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself and stay in your little bubble!!
darkwing 11/11/2009 3:29:31 PM
To all you patronising Christians with your gay friends, please, we don't need you. Keep to your kind and we'll keep to ours. As simple as that. I find the hatred spewing from people like Anne S, who call themselves Christians, frightening. If Christians are like that, what are satanists like?
Me 2 anne 11/11/2009 3:34:43 PM
Anne you old thing, are you a closeted gay yourself?.....I mean you sound bitter, come out ouma, noone will bite you, here we are - very happy and fulfilled irrespective of what the hollier-than-thou lot think. and all you homophobes,get lost...we don't need your approval,bloody hypocrites.
Me @ Anne S 11/11/2009 3:50:21 PM
You are a curse.Jeez! make peace with whatever is eating you up,coz you're just wasting ou useless breath.we are here to stay, deal with it.
Leigh-Anne 11/11/2009 6:03:23 PM
Against gay marriage? Then don't have one.
Frankenstein isHere 11/11/2009 7:26:21 PM
So just who is forcing their religion on whom? You might think it a clearcut case until your begin to dig into the ramifications. Just recently in Canada, a pastor was convicted of hate speech after reading from the bibble, in public, that homosexuality is a sin. So once you start down this slippery slope of not allowing people to call a spade a spade you soon end up oppressing others.
To those who wish to continue practising homosexuality whilst calling themselves Christian I'd just like to leave this thought from the bible: Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery - "go and sin no more". Further - romans makes it plain: If you accept Christ, you cannot continue to willfully sin, thereby making His grace something cheap to be trampled underfoot. There will not enter anything into heaven that defiles, not drunkards, not thiefs, robbers or murderers and definitely not the sexually immoral(all of them - fornicators, adulterers, homosexual practitioners, whoever). That is clear. YOUR CHOICE.
Louise 11/12/2009 8:13:49 AM
if marriage is so sacred, why the sky-high divorce rates. I am sure married gays would show the average straight person what a marriage should actually be like......
Louise 11/12/2009 8:17:26 AM
if gays 'choose' to have aids, why do lesbians have the lowest rate of AIDS of any group....including heterosexual women??

so may stupid and narrowminded people still around us....so very pround of the fact that they are straight, married, breeding.....and dumb....
moriba motubatse 11/12/2009 8:52:41 AM
Don't forget that majority of these gays, lesbians and many other related "gender confused" people do not come from the rural areas. The first time I saw a gay was when I went to university. and these people must not forget that they are the products of men and women and not "gender confused" couples. It can never happen in my house.
Capitalist Soldier 11/12/2009 10:07:00 AM
If only our country had a referendum on this issue- 90%+ people would oppose it.
In my (and most peoples books gays are no better than child molesters, rapist and people who commit beastiality). It is a sexual disorder- like the ones mentioned above. Up until the 80's it was also treated as such , until of course the pshycologists (majority of whom are liberal and gay) changed its classification.
You may have the right to live together and have a "civil union", but the majority of people who know the truth will do everything to keep you out of our churches, schools and businesses and stop you from having kids. Please be openly gay so that we can start this war and get it over. Lets see if this incompetent goverment can protect you from the majority!!!!
Peter @ moriba motubatse 11/12/2009 10:31:40 AM
You sure are one naive native. Do you mean to say that there are no gays in the townships? BS.
Palesa 11/12/2009 12:15:02 PM
My question... what does it matter what two consenting adults do as long as they are not infringing on anyone else’s rights?
And for those who say they are infringing on your rights... please explain which ones.
hellhound 11/12/2009 1:30:56 PM
for all those ppl saying homosexuality is unnatural : do some research in nature, and see how frequent homosexualism occurs in nature, nothing unnatural about it, there are plenty of academic articles substanciating it. For all you homophobes out there, just get on with your own lives, i really feel sorry for you with your closed minds
Lulu 11/12/2009 1:41:40 PM
Reading the comments make me sad, to say the least.

@ Moriba Motubatse - you are blind my man
@ Capitalist Soldier - and you are an expert because????
@Frankensteinis Here - different country, different law
@AnneS - It must be horrible to be so bitter, the hate and unhappiness that you send out is shocking!!!!!
I would love to marry my partner, but I would not out of respect for my family, who will not accept the marriage.
To everybody who say it is a choice, true, it is. I have a choice between a life on my own or with my female partner. Life with a man is not an option, believe me, I tried!!!!! There is your CHOICE!!!!!!!
To all the straight people who believe in choice - if you had to choose between life with a same sex partner or life alone, what would you choose????? Because that is really the choice you are giving us.
Stef 11/12/2009 2:51:49 PM
Great article Oliver!

Stef 11/12/2009 3:00:03 PM
Yes the majority of South Africans might be against gay marriage. Does that mean the majority is right?

The majority of Germans thought Hitler was right.

Also the majority of South Africans voted for the ANC. This shows that even if they had a problem with it it wasn't important enough for them not to vote ANC.


Kate 11/12/2009 3:35:59 PM
To Leigh-Anne: I totally agree with you.
Everyone else: In this country, like it should be in every country, we have a separation of Church and State. Therefore it is not up to Religious Institutions to decide what is best for the people, but it is in the hands of a democratically elected government. The majority voted for the ANC, thus they voted for a party who legalized gay marriage. Therefore what the hell is everyone complaining about? Straight people have been failing miserably at marriage for thousands of years, and so far, us homosexuals are succeeding in it. Therefore I ask all the bigots or otherwise confused people on this comment page to leave us alone, as they clearly do not understand the complex evolution that left them behind.
WhatWouldJesusNotDo? 11/12/2009 4:45:52 PM
It's human to judge, especially things we don't understand. But that doesn't make it right. Bible Abusers, have a look at Matthew 19 about those who can't marry because of the way they were born:
www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/Matthew19.php
Homosexuality has always been there and always will. In modern society many more things are acceptable, but usually favours the majority. It's too easy to still discriminate against minority groups. Matthew 6 is a good read on judgement - how many times does the bible clearly state that we should not judge each other? Pity that empathy and compassion is so sorely lacking from the religious fraternity...




BigDaddyZA 11/12/2009 8:27:19 PM
For the life of me, I cannot understand how quickly the Bible gets thumped when it comes to us gays, but the Bible stays in the bedroom drawer on all other things? Gays are the biggest sinners in the universe ... but pilfering that pen from work or not telling a cashier they have given you too much change is OK? If you want to be a Christian let God do the judgement and you still need to stone adulterers to death instead of just gossiping about it! Gays have been, are and always will be in society - even when burnt at the stake in medieval times. Oppressed, persecuted, hunted, tortured over the millennia and we are still here - when are you lot out there going to make the world a better place instead of fantasising over what we do in our bedrooms? Oppressing blacks is not OK but oppressing gays are? I'm sorry but I cannot get what The One said in Mark 12:31 out of my mind, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." All the Christian comments on this page are contradictory to these laws so how do you sleep at night, knowing you have broken the laws of The One? Or are you busying yourself in constant prayer for forgiveness because you have taken the job of the Almighty in your own hands by trying and sentencing us? God help you all when you have to answer to Him one day when YOU stand accused before Him and this comes back to haunt you!
believer 11/12/2009 11:04:01 PM
God neva created anyone to be gay just the same way he never created a psycopath...Gayness is an evil spirit that poses people open to it just like murderers and thieves who will tell you they cant help it.You allowed that evil spirit to take control and sure u cant help yourself just God can. I personally feel sorry for gay pple coz they seem to be very oblivious of what is goin on with them...its not physical its spiritual and thats why you need a spiritual intervention.Government laws and forum debates cannot help you not even psychologists!!
fatti 11/13/2009 3:04:38 PM
@moriba: haha, seriously?i saw my FIRST cross dressing gay dude eKasi.arms & legs like a gladiator,looked ridiculous but a sense of humour that just made it all fit,and a laugh that was so incredibly infectious.got 2 know him,and now one of my best m8es.AND he's always nje trying to hook me up with these gorgeous women he knows(a few i have..hehe)but i just wanted to impart,that they have,do and will always exist in the rural areas.hahaha so 2 all da bashers-just stop worrying about someone else's sex life,and TALK to the PERSON.maaaan aliiiive...
tricia 11/16/2009 2:44:42 PM
women are the most important creature in the world
Oliver Meth 11/18/2009 3:08:50 PM
lol... i can't believe the crap that homophobic idiots write.
Oliver Meth 11/18/2009 3:10:01 PM
Hi, i'm the author and would love to hear from you! U can network with me via e-mail - olivermeth@hotmail.com
Doreen 11/18/2009 4:33:17 PM
First of all the book that christians base their entire existance on, the bible, was not faxed straight from heaven but is a result of the political stance of the roman empire under constantine which felt was loosing its grip on its empire due to the latest fad at the time, christianity. out of 87 gospels written, only four are in today's bible so forgive me if i do not buy the whole "god said" speech. unless u had a face to face one on one with god then thats just hear say, and unless u know for sure that the other 83 gospels also rebuke homosexuality then u are not basing your argument on all the facts. secondly i am a proud lesbian, socialised in a "heterosexual" community (and thats only coz some people are in the closet)born into a christain family and i say if the christian god really is god and has a problem with my lifestyle then he really should take it up with himself and not me coz he created me. i did not create myself. he's all knowing right? so he knew and went on right ahead and did it anyway. so, not my problem. heterosexuals have had the right to wed since time immemorial and they have done a shoddy job of upholding their "sacred institution". most heterosexual marriages nowadays involve many things that are anything but holy but i suppose they are ok because it's heterosexuals doing it. a lot of self righteous heterosexuals harp on about how homosexuality is unnatural but never logically stop to think that it's ok for them to think that but only in regard to themselves because they are not gay & it only stands to reason that it would be unnatural to them in the same way it would be for a gay person to feel that being straight is extremely unnatural and repulsive.but before u knock, it, try it, u might like it ;-) i suggest that in as much as we are forced to accept heterosexuals and religious people they do the same because in as much as i dont give my neighbour and her cheating husband a second thought they shouldn't give me and beautiful partner a second thought. i dont affect their lives if they do this and i would appreciate it if they stopped trying to affect mine and how i live it. by the way, moribha, be real and catch a clue being gay is anything but western. its acceptance perhaps is but not the actual state. u know, i always find the biggest homophobes to be the same people suffocating in the closet and are so worried about what other people will think so they are afriad to come out and they resent the strong and brave women and men who have and are better for it. it's a crying shame really.
Sarah 11/19/2009 12:25:06 PM
Would all you haters be so mad if Father Christmas was as homophobic as Jesus?

Stop using fairy tales to justify your stupidity and prejudice.
L 12/2/2009 10:53:40 AM
Go read the very first Bible, the word homosexual never existed. I am gay, member of a church and proud to say it. Sometimes wish straight people can just feel for one day how it feels to be discriminated against!!! It is not by choice, but we also do have the right to be happy. I am getting married next year to my lovely wife and cannot wait to start our lives together.
clarence 12/22/2009 3:09:40 PM
Wow, if you all invested the time you spend throwing insults at each other in some grammar & spelling lessons, you may come across as remotely intelligent. Speaking of intelligence, you homosexuals should stop trying to convince the christians that your lifestyle is worthy of their acceptance, because you aren't going to get it.
But bear in mind that they believe in talking snakes, walking on water, virgin births, and god communicating with us lowly humans through a... aha ha... burning bush. Hardly people you should take seriously.
My one friends favourite saying is "goddamned homosexuals". Controversial! But aren't you glad god damns you? Who wants to spend eternity with the obsequious self-righteous christians anyway?
preshen govender 1/6/2010 8:48:05 AM
Gay people must have the right to married like us heterosexual people
They must also suffer like the rest of us
Gollywogman 1/19/2010 8:44:41 AM
What terrible reasoning!!!!! The church can't 'just expand' its moral boundaries!!! God decides what those boundaries are. He never endorsed racism, nor will He ever endorse homosexuality! With the same reasoning, you could say that it's time for the church to start accepting murderers, rapists, and pedophiles into society, because they were wrong in the past about ethnic separation! Utter nonsense. God forbids same sex marriages, and therefore we should as well. @clarence. It's obvious by your childish reasoning that you know absolutely nothing about Christianity.
Ash 1/19/2010 9:57:21 PM
I am a gay man and proud for whom I am. The comment from "capitalist soldier" is one of absolute ignorance, prejudice and bigotry. Comparing us with child molesters, rapist ect.My goodness! You REALLY have problems. What the "majority" wants? Amen! to Our Government protecting gay rights. Religion and politics can never be integrated (just look at some Arab and African countries). In the old apartheid government gay were discriminated against, we had no legal rights, there were just as much "moffie" Bashes as "K@ffer" bashes. "Capitalist soldier" what about you? Guilt from the past? Please listen now all you Anti gay people. We are here to stay. We have our protected rights; you cannot discriminate against us, whether it is in the work place, in the bus, at the public swimming pool, the mall, the complex where you live, ANYWHERE! (Accept in your own house)We don't care about what "your" religion says, many of us are religions but not religiously confused. I believe in a God and I know my Creator loves me and so do many other gays. If I want to hold my life partners hand I will do so! In front of you? So what? Not to "show" you I can, because it is my right as a human being! If I go to a gay pride parade it is because we celebrate our freedom, "ons menswees" not because I have to ask your permission because of your homophobia, the city council of JHB,CPT,Knysna, OUR GOVERNMENT! Gives us permission to have our prides, or whatever we want to celebrate. So please get over it Anti gays. We are Part of your society: Mother, Father, your son, daughter, uncle, aunt, niece, nephew, brother, sister, your boss, neighbor ect ect ect. Keep out of our hair and we will keep out of yours!
InTears 1/25/2010 2:37:45 PM
Dear Anne S....
It's bee a long time since I openly sobbed about much - I am happy straight girl - and have little need to cry!
Your narrow mindedness, your obvious frustration and the fact that you must be so unhappy deep down in me made me weep for you! As I type I am sitting at my desk at work I'm realizing that there are so very many people like you out there! Do you really believe that insulting your fellow humans, making degrading remarks about people who make different choices to the ones you have, to other of various religions and showing that you clearly have no heart and no compassion make you a better person than anybody on this page?
The other reason I cried is your cruelty and the very obviouxe way you don't care whose feelings you hurt, what affect your words will have on others......some of my best and most loyal friends are gay/lesbian and bi.They have shown be nothing but kindness, care and they have always respected the fact that I am straight!
Wow! I so hope that one day you will find what's hurt you or got you in such a tizz about gays/lesbians/bisexuals!
I am so pleased that all those who could be touched by your nastiness are stronger than that and have so much more intergrity! Unfortunately I am now strongr than that and such obvious disrespect, frivolous cruelty and biblebashin hits me hard - surely we should be living in a world where the choice is yours?! I so hope that one day your eyes will be opened and you will be free of your chains!
prisloo 1/29/2010 1:14:07 PM
stop it! ive learned that to ignore or criticise the fact does not change the fact, so pls guys(all of u)the person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. im not a gay but i respect and love them like anybody else. similarly God wont create something without solution..
miss sixty 1/29/2010 5:02:16 PM
being gay is just plain WRONG. Just because its legal it doesnt mean it is right. a lot of things are legal, in many parts of the world, like abortion and prostitution, even cannibalism to name a few. but it doesnt mean its right. in terms of the word "right", im refering to how these practices diminish the spiritual, social and intellectual beings we are.
Lets get real people. im sick of these gays always trying to force feed the rest of the world this bullshit. if u gay, u are gay. thata a choice u make. but then dont try to justify it. why are they always trying to justify themselves if what they are is so natural? until i c two stallions getting it on on the national geographic, then lets leave the word "natural" out of this topic.
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